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Post by see2 on Jun 30, 2024 4:41:34 GMT
They are all old farts anyway . And exceptionally stale ones at that. More denigration ^. It seems to be in the DNA of those on the right-wing side of politics.
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Post by sandypine on Jun 30, 2024 6:40:31 GMT
Hardly baseless. A random audience would be filled with about 20% Reform supporters who would tend to clap the man they see as leader of Reform, the questions were all deigned to highlight what the BBC see as Reform's weak point and did not cover much other ground as regards policies. The 'impartial chairwoman' was primed with 'fact check' information to refute Reform's figures. The 'impartial chairwoman' was aggressive and interruptive when supplying 'detail' and asking more questions than the audience put together. As regards the Andrew Parker saga the facts are clear unless you know different. The first day of this man on the job he was attached to the Channel 4 team who seemingly had that first day on the job as well. After the incident was reported he was asked if he was an actor, he denied it, he then said he was an actor. He had spent all day talking in his 'acting' voice when his normal voice is different both in tone and accent, why would one do that unless some deception was intended? Channel 4 went undercover and scored a 'scoop' within a few hours with a first time canvasser. Covering the election results should be an expertise of the BBC as they have been doing it many years before the others got off the ground. There is also little scope to affect results with bias. Wrong - BBC Question Time audiences are not based on current opinion polling, they are based on how people voted at the last general election. In 2019 there was no Reform UK, so I am guessing that Question Time PROBABLY bases audience participation on The Brexit Party, which would mean that 2% of the audience might be Reform Uk voters. As regards the Channel 4 investigation, I find it utterly remarkable that none of the right wing press seem to be covering the story with the premise that Andrew Parker was a plant, including the rabid right wing Daily Mail, the Daily Express or even GB News which merely parrots what Farage has said. Meanwhile Channel 4 have stated this : "We met Parker for the first time at Reform UK party headquarters, where he was a Reform party canvasser,” “We did not pay the Reform UK canvasser or anyone else in this report. Parker was not known to Channel 4 News and was filmed covertly via the undercover operation.” You are not thinking this through. If it is based on how people voted at the last election then the polls suggest that a random level of support of at least 15% of those people would be voting Reform so any audience should include a level of potential Reform voters. So there would be expected to be 44% Tories, 32% Labour, a host of others and about 3% Green. In the 44% and 32% there would be a significant change to Reform of an unknown number in each and that some of the Tory total moved to Labour. The Green chap got a few claps and there was a sympathetic view on his answers if not outright support, so the Green Lobby was represented. If there were about 100 in the audience then unless there was a selection the chances of that audience picking up Green supporters of more than one or two was pretty slim. However the chances of picking up Reform voters should have been pretty high especially as it was indicated that they researched voting intentions of the audience before the programme. Farage received no claps for any answer, all questioners were hostile, the 'impartial chairwoman' was hostile and he received no support at the end. If you believe that was not a 'rigged' audience and programme then you are in no way au fey with statistics and are allowing your own bias to colour your view. For clarity I also believe that Jeremy Corbyn received biased press coverage and questions against him during his period of Labour leadership and in no way do I support Jeremy Corbyn. As regards Parker we also have to look at how it came about. The first day on the job for both Channel 4 and for Andrew Parker resulted in a scoop for Channel 4. There was no wasted legwork of boring days following many canvassers, they managed the whole range of accusations against Reform in one man, in one day in one outing. As I said you are not au fey with statistics. Then we find out he is an actor, he was playing an acting part on the day as it was not his everyday voice. Sometimes despite people wishing it to be otherwise 2 plus 2 does in fact equal 4.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 30, 2024 6:45:19 GMT
As regards Parker we also have to look at how it came about. The first day on the job for both Channel 4 and for Andrew Parker resulted in a scoop for Channel 4. There was no wasted legwork of boring days following many canvassers, they managed the whole range of accusations against Reform in one man, in one day in one outing. As I said you are not au fey with statistics. Then we find out he is an actor, he was playing an acting part on the day as it was not his everyday voice. Sometimes despite people wishing it to be otherwise 2 plus 2 does in fact equal 4. It really is an amazing coincidence - wonder what odds you would have got on that happening at the bookies?
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Post by Maxwell Severins on Jun 30, 2024 7:19:43 GMT
I know it's an article of faith for lefties that “Racism”, or whatever they mean by it, is the worst thing ever but let's face it, it just isn't. If we look at the real meaning of “Racism”, and ignore the faux cries of “Racist” that get thrown around every time a lefty loses an argument, it still isn't the worst thing ever. It's not assault. It's not murder, or terrorism or rape or paedophilia or any of thousands of other such things that the left seem happy to defend or ignore. It's not even measurable on the same scale. So if someone genuinely does dislike others based on their race or ethnicity, well so what? It's no different than hating someone for their politics, their class or any other perceived difference. And, as we well know, the left are all over that. Yes, it's amazing how out of proportion an offence is blown the more that the social unacceptablity is rammed down everyone's throats. An interesting example of social conditioning. As you quite rightly mention, objectively speaking, the actual act of racism is galaxies away from any one of multiple atrocities that get no airtime and no condemnation from perpetual virtue signallers. I've repeatedly wondered about the mindset of people who are willing to protest, cause chaos on the streets and denegrate their fellow citizens in the name of 'fighting racism', yet aren't remotely interested in demonstrating about far more serious issues causing direct, tangible suffering. And that's before we even get to the fact that the vast majority of accusations of racism are baseless nonsense. It's also interesting how people who behave as though bigotry is the single worst act anyone can commit, are happy to accuse anyone of it at anytime with absolutely no basis for doing so. I mean, surely if it's such a grave offence, then the burden of proof that an act has been commited should be extraordinarily high, no? Yet we constantly see the exact opposite. Accusations thrown around like confetti with no basis whatsoever. Surely a sign that the accusers are either ignorant of their own standards, stupid, or riddled with agenda? Then there's the hypocrisy of their own smears. Boomer, gammon, white privilege etc etc. The prejudice of people belonging to a pre-defined group. Literal bigotry (or at least it was until they attempted to re-define the word). It's actually quite remakable how mainstream society just accepts these contradictions without discussion or analysis, basically because so few people are emotionally capable of it.
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Post by sandypine on Jun 30, 2024 7:34:40 GMT
As regards Parker we also have to look at how it came about. The first day on the job for both Channel 4 and for Andrew Parker resulted in a scoop for Channel 4. There was no wasted legwork of boring days following many canvassers, they managed the whole range of accusations against Reform in one man, in one day in one outing. As I said you are not au fey with statistics. Then we find out he is an actor, he was playing an acting part on the day as it was not his everyday voice. Sometimes despite people wishing it to be otherwise 2 plus 2 does in fact equal 4. It really is an amazing coincidence - wonder what odds you would have got on that happening at the bookies? I think this has the potential to become a serious scandal if Reform press it hard enough. Who knew, who organised it, who suggested it, who was involved. Sunak was quick to make political capital out of it in a very direct way to make it a Reform issue. The Tories had said that they only needed 150,000 voters to turn back to keep many seats. If the police become involved, and I believe they have or may be, then who hired the actor will come out. If the trail leads back to Tory Central Office in some way then... What is evident is that if it was a set up then someone thought it through very badly.
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Post by Maxwell Severins on Jun 30, 2024 7:36:40 GMT
Yeah, the Channel 4 thing was typical gutter journalism and an example of how out of touch the media and political establishment are with the working class. When trying to de-rail someone you would surely aim high, and get a plausible representation of an unforgiveable sin.
They believe that sin to be casual racism. Speaks volumes.
Their portrayal of it (ie, the way they believe that all the unwashed racists discuss these issues) was also laughably out of touch. All it takes is for one of them to venture north of the M25 and set foot in a pub, and they can see how hammy their script was.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jun 30, 2024 8:04:58 GMT
It seems Farrage wants media attention but not scrutiny. Politics doesn't work that way I'm afraid.
I'd say he's gotten off lightly so far in comparison to say Jeremy Corbyn and I say that as someone who holds Corbyn in contempt.
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Post by Maxwell Severins on Jun 30, 2024 8:10:57 GMT
Lol yea there frightened of Farage Haha This thread is highly amusing, with the tripe these idiots believe, lol. Reform is doing us a favour by getting all the idiots to waste their votes in the same bunch of no hopers, lol Do you even follow the polls? Labour have been on a downward trend since the beginning of the year, and have dropped off a cliff since Farage took over Reform. Labour's advantage of the Tories goes back at least 2 years, they've done nothing but trend downwards ever since. The only reason they've maintained their advantage is because the Tories have also done nothing but trend down. Labour winning this election will be like winning a sack race where you don't have to use a sack. And Labour are STILL falling over their own feet in a clumsy attempt to get over the line. Meanwhile, Reform have been surging upwards since well before Christmas last year, and since Farage tookover, they're almost vertical. They're the only party with any momentum whatsoever, and it's perfectly timed. If you think no-one's scared of him then you're absolutely deluded. General election 2024 poll tracker: How do the parties compare?
Performance over the past year; Reform +10% Labour -5% Tories -7%
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Post by Maxwell Severins on Jun 30, 2024 8:19:10 GMT
It seems Farrage wants media attention but not scrutiny. Politics doesn't work that way I'm afraid. I'd say he's gotten off lightly so far in comparison to say Jeremy Corbyn and I say that as someone who holds Corbyn in contempt. Gutter journalism isn't 'scrutiny'.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 30, 2024 8:23:07 GMT
It seems Farrage wants media attention but not scrutiny. Politics doesn't work that way I'm afraid. I'd say he's gotten off lightly so far in comparison to say Jeremy Corbyn and I say that as someone who holds Corbyn in contempt. A stitch up isn't scrutiny. Spreading falsehoods isn't scrutiny.
It's fraud.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jun 30, 2024 8:23:28 GMT
It seems Farrage wants media attention but not scrutiny. Politics doesn't work that way I'm afraid. I'd say he's gotten off lightly so far in comparison to say Jeremy Corbyn and I say that as someone who holds Corbyn in contempt. Gutter journalism isn't 'scrutiny'. Whether it is scrutiny or gutter journalism is a matter of opinion. Do you believe that Jeremy Corbyn was subjected to scrutiny or gutter journalism?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 30, 2024 8:25:14 GMT
Gutter journalism isn't 'scrutiny'. Whether it is scrutiny or gutter journalism is a matter of opinion. Do you believe that Jeremy Corbyn was subjected to scrutiny or gutter journalism? I believe that your post is whataboutery.
But back to the subject, this wasn't journalism.
It was fraud.
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Post by Maxwell Severins on Jun 30, 2024 8:33:02 GMT
Gutter journalism isn't 'scrutiny'. Whether it is scrutiny or gutter journalism is a matter of opinion. Do you believe that Jeremy Corbyn was subjected to scrutiny or gutter journalism? The Channel 4 debacle was obvious gutter journalism. No-one unbiased and objective would fail to see it. As for Corbyn, he was subjected to both. The same as the vast majority of politicians. And unless you're playing partisan party politics, he isn't relevant to the discussion.
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Post by sandypine on Jun 30, 2024 8:45:31 GMT
Gutter journalism isn't 'scrutiny'. Whether it is scrutiny or gutter journalism is a matter of opinion. Do you believe that Jeremy Corbyn was subjected to scrutiny or gutter journalism? Both, but that shows that gutter journalism exists and works against those who have a different view than 'the establishment' however you define that. Corbyn had lies made up about him unfortunately for him he was easy meat, the BNP had lies made up about them and they were easy meat as well. It is now becoming harder to find the muck on Farage and Reform so there is a hint of desperation. The three candidates disowned did not say anything worse than the still a member Labour candidate for Clacton or indeed that still a member Mz Abbott.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jun 30, 2024 8:50:01 GMT
It seems Farrage wants media attention but not scrutiny. Politics doesn't work that way I'm afraid. I'd say he's gotten off lightly so far in comparison to say Jeremy Corbyn and I say that as someone who holds Corbyn in contempt. A stitch up isn't scrutiny. Spreading falsehoods isn't scrutiny.
It's fraud.
Sounds like a victim mentality to me. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
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