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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 28, 2024 9:48:05 GMT
You'd have to charge your EV for several weeks overnight on a home charger (7kW) to do 2000 km. But the point is that a large amount of renewable energy is just wasted because it's collected on days when people don't need it (like in summer). So it just goes around the local loop and gets discarded. If HFC cars were adopted then this electricity could be use to create hydrogen - basically for nothing.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 28, 2024 10:26:16 GMT
You'd have to charge your EV for several weeks overnight on a home charger (7kW) to do 2000 km. But the point is that a large amount of renewable energy is just wasted because it's collected on days when people don't need it (like in summer). So it just goes around the local loop and gets discarded. If HFC cars were adopted then this electricity could be use to create hydrogen - basically for nothing. Good point. I have calculated your maximum for an 8 hour charge is 625 miles minus any efficiency losses. For 2000km you would need to charge for 16 hours + efficiency losses. Now if we work out what percentage of EV drivers need more than that, i.e. they drive over 625m every day, then it would be worth them getting a fatter cable into their house, like at the moment it is 100A but we could uprate to say 250A.
The grid needs uprating anyway, so perhaps all new builds should have larger supplies. We also need to uprate the rest of it so we can connect solar farms up to it. It can take over a decade to get this connection in Blighty right now, and I heard there was some 50GW of solar power projects waiting for the fuckwit leccy people to do the work, who seem to be the same cunts who run the water companies. This green energy would serve us a lot better if we as a nation got our shit together and thought a little more long-term. A 2000km car is in the latest car showrooms over in Shenzhen. I've seen them.
Think about that. Who would need a garage if everyone just plugged in to a supergrid overnight. It would save a fortune. Filling with petrol has always been a hassle, especially in rural areas. I'm convinced that eventually we could have much cheaper and better transport all round, but I feel this country is technically stupid. We have too many farty arty comedians and not enough properly educated engineers, and we don't pay engineers much anyway, so there. We pay the most to marketers and PR agencies.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 28, 2024 16:04:03 GMT
We can make our own magnets, fuel cells will replace Lithium ion batteries, we don't need China.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 28, 2024 19:55:00 GMT
We can make our own magnets, fuel cells will replace Lithium ion batteries, we don't need China. 10KWh hydrogen fuel cell £17k
batteries cost $50 per kWh in China and at least double anywhere else.
This is because a fuel cell uses platinum and ruthenium.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 29, 2024 6:23:13 GMT
You'd have to charge your EV for several weeks overnight on a home charger (7kW) to do 2000 km. But the point is that a large amount of renewable energy is just wasted because it's collected on days when people don't need it (like in summer). So it just goes around the local loop and gets discarded. If HFC cars were adopted then this electricity could be use to create hydrogen - basically for nothing. Good point. I have calculated your maximum for an 8 hour charge is 625 miles minus any efficiency losses. For 2000km you would need to charge for 16 hours + efficiency losses. Now if we work out what percentage of EV drivers need more than that, i.e. they drive over 625m every day, then it would be worth them getting a fatter cable into their house, like at the moment it is 100A but we could uprate to say 250A.
The grid needs uprating anyway, so perhaps all new builds should have larger supplies. We also need to uprate the rest of it so we can connect solar farms up to it. It can take over a decade to get this connection in Blighty right now, and I heard there was some 50GW of solar power projects waiting for the fuckwit leccy people to do the work, who seem to be the same cunts who run the water companies. This green energy would serve us a lot better if we as a nation got our shit together and thought a little more long-term. A 2000km car is in the latest car showrooms over in Shenzhen. I've seen them.
Think about that. Who would need a garage if everyone just plugged in to a supergrid overnight. It would save a fortune. Filling with petrol has always been a hassle, especially in rural areas. I'm convinced that eventually we could have much cheaper and better transport all round, but I feel this country is technically stupid. We have too many farty arty comedians and not enough properly educated engineers, and we don't pay engineers much anyway, so there. We pay the most to marketers and PR agencies.
The most efficient BEVs do about 3 miles/kWh. So for 625 miles you need about 200 kWh. With a domestic charger of 7kW that would need about 30 hours charge - not 6 hours. And if you want a more powerful charger installed in your home it will cost you a fortune - even if it can be done. Remember that the National Grid can't even supply 150kW chargers in charging stations - the charging stations need battery back up to get the 150kW. And uprating the Grid will be incredibly expensive and take many decades - it'll never happen. As for 2000km cars the battery would need to be about 700kWh. How big and how expensive would that need to be? A 100kWh battery weighs nearly a metric ton by the way - and costs about £40k at the moment. Let's have a link to this 2000km car. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 29, 2024 6:37:13 GMT
We can make our own magnets, fuel cells will replace Lithium ion batteries, we don't need China. 10KWh hydrogen fuel cell £17k
batteries cost $50 per kWh in China and at least double anywhere else.
This is because a fuel cell uses platinum and ruthenium.
I'm not sure what a 10kWh fuel cell is - do you mean 10kW? But who cares Toyota make an HFC car (Mirai) for about £60k. That's expensive but of course there's a very limited market for it as there are only 13 hydrogen pumps in the UK. As for the cost of batteries in China they're obviously highly subsidised. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 29, 2024 8:58:40 GMT
Good point. I have calculated your maximum for an 8 hour charge is 625 miles minus any efficiency losses. For 2000km you would need to charge for 16 hours + efficiency losses. Now if we work out what percentage of EV drivers need more than that, i.e. they drive over 625m every day, then it would be worth them getting a fatter cable into their house, like at the moment it is 100A but we could uprate to say 250A.
The grid needs uprating anyway, so perhaps all new builds should have larger supplies. We also need to uprate the rest of it so we can connect solar farms up to it. It can take over a decade to get this connection in Blighty right now, and I heard there was some 50GW of solar power projects waiting for the fuckwit leccy people to do the work, who seem to be the same cunts who run the water companies. This green energy would serve us a lot better if we as a nation got our shit together and thought a little more long-term. A 2000km car is in the latest car showrooms over in Shenzhen. I've seen them.
Think about that. Who would need a garage if everyone just plugged in to a supergrid overnight. It would save a fortune. Filling with petrol has always been a hassle, especially in rural areas. I'm convinced that eventually we could have much cheaper and better transport all round, but I feel this country is technically stupid. We have too many farty arty comedians and not enough properly educated engineers, and we don't pay engineers much anyway, so there. We pay the most to marketers and PR agencies.
The most efficient BEVs do about 3 miles/kWh. So for 625 miles you need about 200 kWh. With a domestic charger of 7kW that would need about 30 hours charge - not 6 hours. And if you want a more powerful charger installed in your home it will cost you a fortune - even if it can be done. Remember that the National Grid can't even supply 150kW chargers in charging stations - the charging stations need battery back up to get the 150kW. And uprating the Grid will be incredibly expensive and take many decades - it'll never happen. As for 2000km cars the battery would need to be about 700kWh. How big and how expensive would that need to be? A 100kWh battery weighs nearly a metric ton by the way - and costs about £40k at the moment. Let's have a link to this 2000km car. It will take me ages to find the link. It was just some Scottish chap and his girlfriend who are travelling through China and one episode we got to look around an exhibition of new cars. Yes I know that is a lot, but that's how it is in China. The progress often surprises you.
With chargers I imagine people buy 7kw as they are mid-market and cheap. A 25kW one would be extra costly due to it being a specialist item of low production volume. I've noticed the cost of such things and similar is linearly proportional to the power. The power is equivalent to its weight in copper wire for the coils. The thing is as you ramp up the switching frequency you need less copper and the efficiency goes up so you produce less heat which saves on cooling it. The reason you are limited is due to your semiconductors, but now we start to use GaN FETS which can cut the weight and size by a factor of ten. They are just coming onto the market now, but I suppose it will be decades before we see them here, just as it will never be that the grid will ever be upgraded and we as a country will degenerate into the progress of the Third World whilst the Third World now overtakes us.
The problem is us and our stupid brains. We have one guy doing the work and ten wankers ordering him around and running diversity schemes and other shit. If we hand these flappers some tools we can upgrade the grid much faster.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 29, 2024 11:54:29 GMT
So the 2000km cars that "you've seen" are just some garbled info from a Scottish bloke and his girlfriend. Great. Sorry BvL but it's just nonsense and you shouldn't be so gullible. It will never happen.
As for the 25kW chargers they would blow the fuses on almost every house in Britain. You'd need expensive upgrading of your ring main and you'd need a special (and even more expensive) connection the the grid. And you'd still never get the rate of charge that you want because the grid isn't capable of consistent power rates like this. Transient loads or OK but not large numbers of high loads over long periods of time. Unless you have a special connection.
And the reason why China can do some things much more quickly than we can is because they're run by a dictatorship. If you don't have to get the permission of the public to do unpopular things then it's much easier.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 29, 2024 12:07:02 GMT
Exactly, on top of that lithium ion batteries are famous for catching fire.
Better to use rare earths to make efficient motors and use fuel cells. Besides, petrol powered fuel cells are also possible. Synthetic petrol is starting production in Australia soon. Renewable hydrocarbons which subtract from net atmospheric CO2 will take over and ultimately climate change will be reversed.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 29, 2024 12:25:39 GMT
So the 2000km cars that "you've seen" are just some garbled info from a Scottish bloke and his girlfriend. Great. Sorry BvL but it's just nonsense and you shouldn't be so gullible. It will never happen. As for the 25kW chargers they would blow the fuses on almost every house in Britain. You'd need expensive upgrading of your ring main and you'd need a special (and even more expensive) connection the the grid. And you'd still never get the rate of charge that you want because the grid isn't capable of consistent power rates like this. Transient loads or OK but not large numbers of high loads over long periods of time. Unless you have a special connection. And the reason why China can do some things much more quickly than we can is because they're run by a dictatorship. If you don't have to get the permission of the public to do unpopular things then it's much easier. In this world it is all about who you can trust and who you can't. In British politics and to some extent British commerce, reps of the organisation routinely lie. You can not trust them. In China you have these giant corporations worth billions of dollars and they don't lie. If they say their car will do 2000 km you can bet it will, or what you will likely find with Chinese specs is they will do a little more than quoted in practice. I'll give you one guess why this is. Anyhow taken as a given one can go on to say if the corporation rates it thus, their salesman will faithfully reproduce those figures to the customers wandering around the exhibition. Now the only question was whether the Scottish chap was told one figure and a few moments later lied to us with a different figure. I've watched a few hours of his broadcasts and see that nothing he says is wrong as far as I know. Just accept the fact that not all Scottish blokes are liars. This chap is pretty intelligence, hence why I listen to what he has to say. It's so sad you suspect everyone fibs to you. I'm certainly not. I'm telling you faithfully what he told me. True it looked like a high end car and probably wasn't cheap, but Shenzhen has many billionaires living there. It has serious money. China is a large country too, so 2000km has utility.
Regarding our grid, well I don't think we have the luxury of keeping it as it is unless we want to get ever poorer and go backwards. You must factor in both sides of the equation. The new system will cost a lot, but it will also save a lot. Look at it from a point of where we are, and plot to where we want to be, i.e. sufficient capacity to run all energy generation and to give us 250A of supply. The chargers will have a soft-start to get rid of any surge. All this engineering is extremely complicated. You need to work on the material science as well. One technology we are working on is graphene conductors.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 29, 2024 22:46:35 GMT
£80 for a full tank, 400 miles range, fast refill time.
This, not batteries is a good tech for cars.
Keep the rare earths in the motors.
Power the cars with hydrogen or renewable hydrocarbons.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 30, 2024 6:30:29 GMT
So the 2000km cars that "you've seen" are just some garbled info from a Scottish bloke and his girlfriend. Great. Sorry BvL but it's just nonsense and you shouldn't be so gullible. It will never happen. As for the 25kW chargers they would blow the fuses on almost every house in Britain. You'd need expensive upgrading of your ring main and you'd need a special (and even more expensive) connection the the grid. And you'd still never get the rate of charge that you want because the grid isn't capable of consistent power rates like this. Transient loads or OK but not large numbers of high loads over long periods of time. Unless you have a special connection. And the reason why China can do some things much more quickly than we can is because they're run by a dictatorship. If you don't have to get the permission of the public to do unpopular things then it's much easier. In this world it is all about who you can trust and who you can't. In British politics and to some extent British commerce, reps of the organisation routinely lie. You can not trust them. In China you have these giant corporations worth billions of dollars and they don't lie. If they say their car will do 2000 km you can bet it will, or what you will likely find with Chinese specs is they will do a little more than quoted in practice. I'll give you one guess why this is. Anyhow taken as a given one can go on to say if the corporation rates it thus, their salesman will faithfully reproduce those figures to the customers wandering around the exhibition. Now the only question was whether the Scottish chap was told one figure and a few moments later lied to us with a different figure. I've watched a few hours of his broadcasts and see that nothing he says is wrong as far as I know. Just accept the fact that not all Scottish blokes are liars. This chap is pretty intelligence, hence why I listen to what he has to say. It's so sad you suspect everyone fibs to you. I'm certainly not. I'm telling you faithfully what he told me. True it looked like a high end car and probably wasn't cheap, but Shenzhen has many billionaires living there. It has serious money. China is a large country too, so 2000km has utility.
Regarding our grid, well I don't think we have the luxury of keeping it as it is unless we want to get ever poorer and go backwards. You must factor in both sides of the equation. The new system will cost a lot, but it will also save a lot. Look at it from a point of where we are, and plot to where we want to be, i.e. sufficient capacity to run all energy generation and to give us 250A of supply. The chargers will have a soft-start to get rid of any surge. All this engineering is extremely complicated. You need to work on the material science as well. One technology we are working on is graphene conductors.
So the Chinese don't lie? Your gullibility knows no bounds BvL. If there ever was a car that could do 2000km on a single charge it would be towing a big trailer with its battery onit.  And it will eventually dawn on the morons who came up with the idea of making domestic transport use battery power that the costs of doing it are absolutely huge. Upgrading the National Grid, as I said, would take many decades and cost trillions. And then you'd need all the new nuclear power stations which would also take decades and cost hundreds of billions. And none of it will save any CO2 at all - probably make it worse. It's just the most ridiculous idea our politicians have ever had. Whoever started this scam must laughing their arses off. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 30, 2024 7:36:20 GMT
So the 2000km cars that "you've seen" are just some garbled info from a Scottish bloke and his girlfriend. Great. Sorry BvL but it's just nonsense and you shouldn't be so gullible. It will never happen. As for the 25kW chargers they would blow the fuses on almost every house in Britain. You'd need expensive upgrading of your ring main and you'd need a special (and even more expensive) connection the the grid. And you'd still never get the rate of charge that you want because the grid isn't capable of consistent power rates like this. Transient loads or OK but not large numbers of high loads over long periods of time. Unless you have a special connection. And the reason why China can do some things much more quickly than we can is because they're run by a dictatorship. If you don't have to get the permission of the public to do unpopular things then it's much easier. You are calling me stupid for believing an ordinary Brit. What makes you think you are any more honest? |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 30, 2024 23:41:34 GMT
Early days, when mass produced the price of a fuel cell car will drop to £25k It has 313m range. Latest electrics are 2000km range, which is 4x the BMW hydrogen range. Is that the WLTP Data again ? And WHICH electrics have a 2000 km range ?? |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 30, 2024 23:52:20 GMT
So the 2000km cars that "you've seen" are just some garbled info from a Scottish bloke and his girlfriend. Great. Sorry BvL but it's just nonsense and you shouldn't be so gullible. It will never happen. As for the 25kW chargers they would blow the fuses on almost every house in Britain. You'd need expensive upgrading of your ring main and you'd need a special (and even more expensive) connection the the grid. And you'd still never get the rate of charge that you want because the grid isn't capable of consistent power rates like this. Transient loads or OK but not large numbers of high loads over long periods of time. Unless you have a special connection. And the reason why China can do some things much more quickly than we can is because they're run by a dictatorship. If you don't have to get the permission of the public to do unpopular things then it's much easier. It may take the baron ages, but it took me seconds finance.yahoo.com/news/byd-shows-off-hybrid-powertrain-125608793.htmlThis is a HYBRID car that achieves 2000 km on one tank of gas Oops |
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