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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 13, 2024 15:40:04 GMT
Nigel Farage has said he would be willing to lead a merged Reform-Conservative party. The Reform party leader said he could not lead the Tories as it “currently is” but predicted a new party is likely to emerge after the general election. Asked if he could rule out leading the Conservative Party one day, Mr Farage told LBC on Thursday morning: "I think something new is going to emerge on the centre-Right, I don’t know what it is called". "But do I think I am capable of leading a national opposition to a Labour Party with a big majority where I can stand up and hold them to account on issues? Yes." Asked if he would be happy to lead a merged party, he replied: "Yes". He added: "They [the Tories] may be dead". www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/13/farage-willing-to-lead-conservative-reform-merged-party/I think it's very premature to talk about the death of the Tory party, but the fact that it is being talked about is testament to weak so called one nation centrists, people like Sunak, who have infiltrated the Conservative party. Over the next few years the Tories will have two choices: Move back to the centre right and become relevant, or stay centrist and become irrelevant as Reform becomes the official opposition party.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 13, 2024 15:58:56 GMT
I've just looked at a voting poll in the Sun, you actually get to vote, then the results are shown, it shows the Tories well in the lead, ok so it's just people who read the sun voting, but the Sun is a center paper, so something stinks.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 13, 2024 17:12:13 GMT
I can see a massive defeat for the Tories leading to a split in the Party - the Thatcherite wing could easily combine with Reform and have Farage as leader. The One Nation remnants would either wither into nothing or join Labour or the LibDems who they are more in tune with anyway.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 13, 2024 19:13:38 GMT
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 13, 2024 20:58:27 GMT
Nigel Farage has said he would be willing to lead a merged Reform-Conservative party. The Reform party leader said he could not lead the Tories as it “currently is” but predicted a new party is likely to emerge after the general election. Asked if he could rule out leading the Conservative Party one day, Mr Farage told LBC on Thursday morning: "I think something new is going to emerge on the centre-Right, I don’t know what it is called". "But do I think I am capable of leading a national opposition to a Labour Party with a big majority where I can stand up and hold them to account on issues? Yes." Asked if he would be happy to lead a merged party, he replied: "Yes". He added: "They [the Tories] may be dead". www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/13/farage-willing-to-lead-conservative-reform-merged-party/I think it's very premature to talk about the death of the Tory party, but the fact that it is being talked about is testament to weak so called one nation centrists, people like Sunak, who have infiltrated the Conservative party. Over the next few years the Tories will have two choices: Move back to the centre right and become relevant, or stay centrist and become irrelevant as Reform becomes the official opposition party. I don't. You see the problem is the fuckwits in the Conservative Party are the same fuckwits in the civil service and the Times, Telegraph etc, and they fucked the country up big style. In politics my take on it is of you have a highly corrupt party, the last thing you want to be seen with is bits of it mingling in with your own. You want a totally independent firm with all new people in it, and they should be selected by those who have got their wits about them. I think Tice knows a competent person as he is a businessman and relies on his judgment. Farage though, I think he should stick to being frontman. Presentation of policies is Farage's forte. The thinking, planning, research, the vetting of candidates and all of that stuff should be done by those who are as skilful as Farage, but whose expertise is in the thing they deal with. For example in planning tax policy you get tax expert and so on. The only Tories you could possibly make an exception for are those who get thrown out for opposing the Tories in some way, as in say they are anti-woke, but even that is a bit off-putting to many. Especially Labour, they think a Tories is like the stuff from hell. Right now with Farage leading they are still climbing fast in the polls. So I think they have the right formula right now. If they can poll above the Tories then things will get very interesting and they will get a lot of publicity, which in turn can push the vote even higher, and perhaps hit polling day as this excitement peaks and get some MPs.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 13, 2024 21:47:07 GMT
I don't. You see the problem is the fuckwits in the Conservative Party are the same fuckwits in the civil service and the Times, Telegraph etc, and they fucked the country up big style. In politics my take on it is of you have a highly corrupt party, the last thing you want to be seen with is bits of it mingling in with your own. You want a totally independent firm with all new people in it, and they should be selected by those who have got their wits about them. I think Tice knows a competent person as he is a businessman and relies on his judgment. Farage though, I think he should stick to being frontman. Presentation of policies is Farage's forte. The thinking, planning, research, the vetting of candidates and all of that stuff should be done by those who are as skilful as Farage, but whose expertise is in the thing they deal with. For example in planning tax policy you get tax expert and so on. The only Tories you could possibly make an exception for are those who get thrown out for opposing the Tories in some way, as in say they are anti-woke, but even that is a bit off-putting to many. Especially Labour, they think a Tories is like the stuff from hell. Right now with Farage leading they are still climbing fast in the polls. So I think they have the right formula right now. If they can poll above the Tories then things will get very interesting and they will get a lot of publicity, which in turn can push the vote even higher, and perhaps hit polling day as this excitement peaks and get some MPs. Don't talk bloody rubbish. You fail to grasp the fact that the Tories are nose diving to electoral defeat because they are no longer Tories, they are no longer centre right Conservatives. Make no mistake Labour are not winning because they are good or popular, they're winning because the Tories are crap. And the reason the Tories are crap is because over the past decade or so the Parliamentary Conservative Party has moved to the centre. Corbyn moved Labour to the far left, and for some unfathomable reason the Tories filled the centre ground which was always going to be a recipe for electoral disaster. The next five years are going to be very interesting, especially with right wing parties in Europe becoming increasingly popular as a direct result of two issues: immigration and net zero. Will Starmer seek to please his electorate, or his beloved left wing WEF?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 13, 2024 22:41:55 GMT
I don't. You see the problem is the fuckwits in the Conservative Party are the same fuckwits in the civil service and the Times, Telegraph etc, and they fucked the country up big style. In politics my take on it is of you have a highly corrupt party, the last thing you want to be seen with is bits of it mingling in with your own. You want a totally independent firm with all new people in it, and they should be selected by those who have got their wits about them. I think Tice knows a competent person as he is a businessman and relies on his judgment. Farage though, I think he should stick to being frontman. Presentation of policies is Farage's forte. The thinking, planning, research, the vetting of candidates and all of that stuff should be done by those who are as skilful as Farage, but whose expertise is in the thing they deal with. For example in planning tax policy you get tax expert and so on. The only Tories you could possibly make an exception for are those who get thrown out for opposing the Tories in some way, as in say they are anti-woke, but even that is a bit off-putting to many. Especially Labour, they think a Tories is like the stuff from hell. Right now with Farage leading they are still climbing fast in the polls. So I think they have the right formula right now. If they can poll above the Tories then things will get very interesting and they will get a lot of publicity, which in turn can push the vote even higher, and perhaps hit polling day as this excitement peaks and get some MPs. Don't talk bloody rubbish. You fail to grasp the fact that the Tories are nose diving to electoral defeat because they are no longer Tories, they are no longer centre right Conservatives. Make no mistake Labour are not winning because they are good or popular, they're winning because the Tories are crap. And the reason the Tories are crap is because over the past decade or so the Parliamentary Conservative Party has moved to the centre. Corbyn moved Labour to the far left, and for some unfathomable reason the Tories filled the centre ground which was always going to be a recipe for electoral disaster. The next five years are going to be very interesting, especially with right wing parties in Europe becoming increasingly popular as a direct result of two issues: immigration and net zero. Will Starmer seek to please his electorate, or his beloved left wing WEF? It's not rubbish. Farage is both pulling prospective Tory voters and Labour voters. I've been following the polls and it is clearly showing this pattern. See the last few days Reform has shot up and Labour and the Cons have dipped in equal proportion. Reform are running in second place all over the North and the East and West Midlands. These were once traditional Labour seats, and Reform do worst in London as you would expect. It's London that is weighting the party down in the national sense. You read the comments on leftwing forums and they absolutely hate the Tories. They also think Starmer is a Tory as well, but some of these people actually go with Farage. They would not like Farage as much if he were sucking up to Tory shits. Also I feel like when you have a team of people you get the one bad apple, then that can sour the whole thing. They can not go on stage and say the Tories are failures and go recruiting them at the same time. People would say fuck you, you are just as hypocritical as all the rest. There are also those who normally never vote who Farage might encourage to vote. I see a few like this as well. This sector is pretty large.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 14, 2024 7:01:05 GMT
I think both Labour and the Tories are split. The Tories are split by Brexit. Sunak has removed all Brexit ministers (after Boris had removed most remainers). It can't go on like this and ever win an election. And Labour are split by Momentum, who will make their presence felt after the election.
It certainly makes sense for a centre right party to be created from Reform and the genuine Conservatives in the Tory party. The rest of the EU loving Tories can join the Lib Dems.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 14, 2024 7:13:30 GMT
Well, without doubt the Farage is the most influential politician in UK politics by a country mile, will he turn that into votes, that is a different matter. He certainly isn't offering to revolutionise UK politics, which I am not sure is in his favour, he is trying to turn the clock back, I am not so sure that is an overall vote winner.
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Post by sandypine on Jun 14, 2024 7:36:28 GMT
Well, without doubt the Farage is the most influential politician in UK politics by a country mile, will he turn that into votes, that is a different matter. He certainly isn't offering to revolutionise UK politics, which I am not sure is in his favour, he is trying to turn the clock back, I am not so sure that is an overall vote winner. He is the only one with any sort of charisma although I am surprised at how low key Ben Habib has been but perhaps he is allowing Farage the limelight. I think many in the Red Wall held their noses and voted Tory in 2019 for lots of different reasons. I do not think Farage wants to turn the clock back he seem pretty well set in the view that you listen to the electorate with whom one often disagrees but then one has to take that disagreement on board when presenting policy. That outlook could be a vote winner as it seems to have been for Boris in 2019, however Boris threw it away; if Reform do well then Farage has to follow through with some determination even if a Labour majority blocks that.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 14, 2024 7:52:56 GMT
Well, without doubt the Farage is the most influential politician in UK politics by a country mile, will he turn that into votes, that is a different matter. He certainly isn't offering to revolutionise UK politics, which I am not sure is in his favour, he is trying to turn the clock back, I am not so sure that is an overall vote winner. He is the only one with any sort of charisma although I am surprised at how low key Ben Habib has been but perhaps he is allowing Farage the limelight. I think many in the Red Wall held their noses and voted Tory in 2019 for lots of different reasons. I do not think Farage wants to turn the clock back he seem pretty well set in the view that you listen to the electorate with whom one often disagrees but then one has to take that disagreement on board when presenting policy. That outlook could be a vote winner as it seems to have been for Boris in 2019, however Boris threw it away; if Reform do well then Farage has to follow through with some determination even if a Labour majority blocks that. Personally, I think he is spouting Thatcherite policies because he knows that will draw the old school votes from the Conservatives which is working like a charm, I am not sure it will change anything come election time. Boris was on a bandwagon he never expected to actually pan out, but ran with it, because it appealed to a much wider audience than plain old Westminster politics.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 14, 2024 10:31:00 GMT
I think both Labour and the Tories are split. The Tories are split by Brexit. Sunak has removed all Brexit ministers (after Boris had removed most remainers). It can't go on like this and ever win an election. And Labour are split by Momentum, who will make their presence felt after the election. It certainly makes sense for a centre right party to be created from Reform and the genuine Conservatives in the Tory party. The rest of the EU loving Tories can join the Lib Dems. Genuine Conservative no longer washes with the public anymore. All the Conservatives we have seen in the public eye have faked it. It is a brand that is highly tainted. Look just think of it this way. If it were brand of washing up liquid, but for some reason it created a market scandal and everyone ditched the brand, the firm would not want the next product to have the slightest hint that it has anything to do with the old brand. This is just marketing 101. The public do not think like we do. They are on average simpletons, and they will pick up on an impure brand in much the same way as if a pub served them watered down beer. The public are in a chucking out mood to punish the ones who screwed them. They got screwed over covid contracts, they killed 200 000 of us screwing up covid and so on. The brand is about as toxic as it could be. One positive is I don't think there will be an Indian prime minister again in our lifetime.
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Post by piglet on Jun 14, 2024 10:46:14 GMT
I wonder how the cons got to be like this, it shows how being left is always a recipoe for disaster. The lesson to be learnt is that at heart britain is conservative.
Britain is conservative. Its conservative with a bit of leftism which is healthy, its getting the balance right. Who knows what will happen on election night, to me it seems crazy to vote Labour, its voting for more of the same but worse. Maybe, Reform will come second, maybe even win it.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 14, 2024 11:03:40 GMT
I wonder how the cons got to be like this, it shows how being left is always a recipoe for disaster. The lesson to be learnt is that at heart britain is conservative. Britain is conservative. Its conservative with a bit of leftism which is healthy, its getting the balance right. Who knows what will happen on election night, to me it seems crazy to vote Labour, its voting for more of the same but worse. Maybe, Reform will come second, maybe even win it. Elections are dynamical systems so you have to factor in the momentum. Farage wrong-stepped the opposition by dropping in at the very last moment and is knocking them for six just as they had imagined they could whack Tice in the debates as a relative novice in the game of politics. Farage is an expert at destroying the institution and he is applying the same methodology that he did with the European Parliament as he is with our current Westminster parliament. I think he stepped in at exactly the right time and this roll he is on is still straight up. We will have to see how long he can maintain the rate of climb in the polls he has seen since he started. Prior to that Reform dived a bit from their peak. I have no idea why, but before Farage joined their position was sinking. Now there is a kind of hope that Reform votes can make Reform MPs.
Here is what the Telegraph report:
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Post by witchfinder on Jun 14, 2024 11:16:45 GMT
Reform UK is not a political party that offers very much that could make life any better for the ordinary man or woman, its based almost exclusively around Immigration, Populism and Nationalism.
I actually do think that such a new political party bridging the Right of the Conservative Party with Reform UK might happen ... but what success would it have. ?
Such a party would take away some votes from Labour, particularly in traditional working class areas ( The Red Wall ), but it would also lose many traditional Conservative votes, especially in their heartlands of the South, the Home Counties and the Midlands, middle class people who could not stomach a Right wing, populist party hell bent on jingoism and immigrant bashing.
What would happen to the remainder of the Conservative Party, the moderates and traditionalists, the Ken Clarkes of this world and Nicholas Soames. ?
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