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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 27, 2022 7:51:13 GMT
I just listened to a discussion about net-zero on Talk TV, and it seems people are becoming disillusioned with the policy because they feel the true costs are being hidden, which I think is a very fair comment. According to YouGov 44% of people want a referendum on net-zero, so where do you stand?
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 27, 2022 9:09:46 GMT
No.
It's too important an issue for it to be voted on by a population so uninformed they thought leaving the EU was a good idea.
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 27, 2022 9:15:00 GMT
No. It's too important an issue for it to be voted on by a population so uninformed they thought leaving the EU was a good idea. If the government are going to force net-zero on us, the very least they should do is be honest about the cost. We are not being told the truth. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 27, 2022 9:38:45 GMT
No. It's too important an issue for it to be voted on by a population so uninformed they thought leaving the EU was a good idea. If the government are going to force net-zero on us, the very least they should do is be honest about the cost. We are not being told the truth. They aren't forcing it on me. I don't think they go far enough. All we get is promises and COP-out 27 with a carbon footprint bigger than a Chinese coal burning power station. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 27, 2022 12:16:08 GMT
I think whatever government dosent tell the truth on any proposed policy look at the cost of the of the new northen rail line its costing 40 billion abd still rising
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Post by thomas on Nov 27, 2022 14:02:41 GMT
I just listened to a discussion about net-zero on Talk TV, and it seems people are becoming disillusioned with the policy because they feel the true costs are being hidden, which I think is a very fair comment. According to YouGov 44% of people want a referendum on net-zero, so where do you stand? I dont think referendums are a bad thing. How can more democracy and increasing participation in politics for the average joe be bad?
As for net zero , what exactly is the long game being played by western politicians here?
Are they genuine about saving the planet from mans ravages , or is ther something more sinister at play here.
How can governments be genuine about saving the health of this earth by on the one hand stopping sharon from using the 4 by 4 to drop the weans off at school , but on the other hand cheering on the elephant in the room , which is the growing overpopualtion of the human race on this planet?
There needs to be much more discussion , less "we know best " attitude from governments , referendums and more engagement with the populace .
Im open minded about climate change , support solar and wind power , but i too am becoming more and more disillusioned about net zero and government policy .
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Post by Orac on Nov 27, 2022 14:32:21 GMT
Indeed, Thomas
As far as I can ascertain, the government's 'plan' is for a dramatic reduction in plebian living standards, possibly followed by famine and eventual invasion.
I guess I should add that the government aren't themselves describing it in those terms. The government's portrayal of this dreadful scenario looks like an eighties lady's shampoo advert - ie lots of walking barefoot over rocks and showering in untouched waterfalls.
If we had a referendum, the answer would be 'no thanks' and the government would ignore the result. This might help clarify things a bit though.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 27, 2022 18:21:37 GMT
I think a referendum would be a good thing - the population would get more educated about the costs involved and can then make an informed decision. At the moment we are being economically crippled by a policy that nobody actually voted for.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2022 19:22:53 GMT
If the government are going to force net-zero on us, the very least they should do is be honest about the cost. We are not being told the truth. They aren't forcing it on me. I don't think they go far enough. All we get is promises and COP-out 27 with a carbon footprint bigger than a Chinese coal burning power station. If they were forcing it on you you would want a vote on it and even as a supporter if they were not doing it you would also want a vote to make it happen. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2022 19:23:53 GMT
No. It's too important an issue for it to be voted on by a population so uninformed they thought leaving the EU was a good idea. Spoken like a true democrat |
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 27, 2022 19:33:33 GMT
They aren't forcing it on me. I don't think they go far enough. All we get is promises and COP-out 27 with a carbon footprint bigger than a Chinese coal burning power station. If they were forcing it on you you would want a vote on it and even as a supporter if they were not doing it you would also want a vote to make it happen. Let me think. Will people vote for a lower standard of living to prevent something they don't fully understand happening after they themselves may well be dead? It's about as likely as a large flightless bird voting for the festive season if you ask me. I suspect those pushing for a referendum know this too. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2022 20:08:10 GMT
If they were forcing it on you you would want a vote on it and even as a supporter if they were not doing it you would also want a vote to make it happen. Let me think. Will people vote for a lower standard of living to prevent something they don't fully understand happening after they themselves may well be dead? It's about as likely as a large flightless bird voting for the festive season if you ask me. I suspect those pushing for a referendum know this too. The argument is think of future generations which is something we all do and that is supposedly why we should seek net zero. What you are saying is that you believe implicitly there is a problem so you want everyone else to accept your remedy for the problem and that remedy is a government target which you are happy about. Another view is that net zero is largely tosh as it involves all sorts of fiddle factors as regards offsets and carbon trading. What is most certain is that without so much as asking our leave we will all have to curtail our own emissions and probably end up much worse off as those saving the planet continue to travel hither and thither whilst offsetting each private jet flight by planting 200 trees in Africa on sequestered farm land. In democratic terms you could also say that God expects you to save the planet and everyone else must submit to His/your will becasue you are right and teh government is on your side. The idea of democracy is choosing a course of action by consent. Back in 72 and then 75 many believed that the EEC membership was a road to ruin and voted against it. What they did do then was accept the will of the people even though they believed implicitly that that decision was wrong. This is what democracy is about. There are no 'betters' in democracy there are only votes. |
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Post by patman post on Nov 27, 2022 22:15:01 GMT
Personally I quite like the push for net zero. The cars I’ve been driving are speedy, but quiet. — and I’ve not experienced “range anxiety”. The environment is becoming cleaner. Many shops are reverting to paper bags. When times return to normal, efficient appliances will reduce bills.
It’s being forced on us, I know, but my feeling it would eventually be, anyway, and I prefer to think we’re acting in measured and effective ways rather than reacting in a panic fashion further down the line…
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 27, 2022 22:29:51 GMT
Well look on the brightside - on an island made of coal floating on an ocean of oil and gas we are currently (all hail to the god of Net Zero) importing gas from the Qatar and the USA and coal from Mozambique and the US.
Meanwhile we are imposing crippling levels of taxation on UK energy producers so they shut down investment - hence all the taxes, jobs and profits flow to companies in Mozambique, Qatar and the US.
What a stunning economic legacy - hope everyone is proud of their contribution to saving the Polar Bears (whose population is currently at record levels..)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2022 22:41:43 GMT
If I was convinced that CO2 is responsible for the planet warming and that mankind could do anything about it, ye, I would support efforts to reduce CO2 emissions. However, there is no such evidence.
How many people should we kill? Climate change has killed nobody. The weather sometimes does, as in Italy, yesterday.
We are being gaslighted into poverty and death by freezing. I'm all for ecology, but this is a step too far.
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