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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 9, 2024 14:58:45 GMT
Would you be happy if I proposed a referendum on membership of the single market and claimed it was different to the membership of the EU? I don’t see the relevance. We rejected Gordon Brown’s fucking stupid idea because it was fucking stupid on its implementation. So much sontgat the Electoral commission agreed it could be LESS proportional than FPTP Wrong Parliament. It was a condition of the coalition that the LibDems wanted a referendum. The Tories would only agree to AV. Nothing to do with Gordon Brown. |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 9, 2024 15:03:41 GMT
I don't much care Farage says he is going to destroy the Tories, he is good at destruction, meanwhile Labour still couldn't fill a village hall themselves so they are self-destructing themselves. There is no love lost between the Westminster party and the electorate. ive been posting on these political forums since the mid 2000s and Steves old forum since 2008 , where we were formerly members of as you know sheep. I well remember labours 2005 victory , and even in 2008 ,after the crash the forums and interwebby was full of them. On Facebook , twitter , social media and these old politics forums , labours supporters this time round are as rare as rocking horse shit. I find it really bizarre. Who the fuck voted them , and where are all the starmerites? I mean , I know they only got 2 / 10 of the electorate , a third of those that could be bothered , but where are they all? are they in hiding already , unable to take responsibility to what they have done? I am still enjoying those bastards the rump of the Tories running around like headless chickens still trying to play the Westminster game saying if only we had real Tories etc,etc, they had real Tories but wait if only we can get rid of those bastards in new labour they could prove how much better they are at the job, what a bunch of fruitcakes. You are right in these massed minions of new labour aren't much in view, because they don't fecking exist. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 9, 2024 15:07:55 GMT
It will not be understood if it has never really existed. Closer alignment and better relations are all shorthand for some form of EU membership and EU control. Brexit was about cutting the binding ties with teh EU so that our own decisions could be made in all things. I think everyone outside the deluded new labour bubble are aware that the close you get to the EU , the more rules you take on. Its rinse and repeat from these new labour clowns.. BRINO , and all the other guff that got proposed and rejected countless times post 2016. I was convinced starmer was going to win handsomely and take the uk back into the EU pre the election , now.......im not so sure he has the bottle on no mandate. Some of the hotheads like lammy are screaming about a reset , but starmer is very weak and cautious , especially with Farage sitting in parliament with him watching his every move. We just have to wait and see what starmer does. Im calling him out now.....shitebag. He has more sense that to take us back in directly but he will pave the way and Farage will spot such actions immediately and ask searching and pointed questions. He could have done without Farage, whose EU experience is extensive, but it is a hurdle he will either cross or circumnavigate around. I think Starmer would have tried to take us back in before the end of the parliament, if Reform had not been there, as some sort of unavoidable choice over an emergency engineered to allow just that. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 15:19:32 GMT
I think everyone outside the deluded new labour bubble are aware that the close you get to the EU , the more rules you take on. Its rinse and repeat from these new labour clowns.. BRINO , and all the other guff that got proposed and rejected countless times post 2016. I was convinced starmer was going to win handsomely and take the uk back into the EU pre the election , now.......im not so sure he has the bottle on no mandate. Some of the hotheads like lammy are screaming about a reset , but starmer is very weak and cautious , especially with Farage sitting in parliament with him watching his every move. We just have to wait and see what starmer does. Im calling him out now.....shitebag. He has more sense that to take us back in directly but he will pave the way and Farage will spot such actions immediately and ask searching and pointed questions. He could have done without Farage, whose EU experience is extensive, but it is a hurdle he will either cross or circumnavigate around. I think Starmer would have tried to take us back in before the end of the parliament, if Reform had not been there, as some sort of unavoidable choice over an emergency engineered to allow just that. I genuinely believe the plan was to win on 40 % plus of the vote , and then start tying the uk back into the EU , but his dismal failure in merely achieving 33.7 % of the vote means he lacks the courage to push on , and is having a rethink behind the scenes. Privately many in labour are said to be furious with starmers lacklustre performance , and election results. neither Corbyn , or Farage were meant to get seats. all in all , while not a hung parliament , still a dogs dinner of a parliament , and I personally think we are in for yet more rough riding. all the elephants sit patiently waiting for starmer in the room , like immigration , Northern Ireland , what to do about the EU with remainers and leavers all waiting to se how he turns , and much much more. internationally its not much better as we have said. Very interesting times ahead. politics has gotten much more exciting at last |
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 15:24:41 GMT
I think everyone outside the deluded new labour bubble are aware that the close you get to the EU , the more rules you take on. Its rinse and repeat from these new labour clowns.. BRINO , and all the other guff that got proposed and rejected countless times post 2016. I was convinced starmer was going to win handsomely and take the uk back into the EU pre the election , now.......im not so sure he has the bottle on no mandate. Some of the hotheads like lammy are screaming about a reset , but starmer is very weak and cautious , especially with Farage sitting in parliament with him watching his every move. We just have to wait and see what starmer does. Im calling him out now.....shitebag. He has more sense that to take us back in directly but he will pave the way and Farage will spot such actions immediately and ask searching and pointed questions. He could have done without Farage, whose EU experience is extensive, but it is a hurdle he will either cross or circumnavigate around. I think Starmer would have tried to take us back in before the end of the parliament, if Reform had not been there, as some sort of unavoidable choice over an emergency engineered to allow just that. what I want to know sandy is where are all the new labour starmerites? they seem to have gone missing across the interwebby? ive been on numerous social media and various forums today and its total radio silence from the brothers and sisters. are they off on the long term sick already? |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 9, 2024 15:38:08 GMT
He has more sense that to take us back in directly but he will pave the way and Farage will spot such actions immediately and ask searching and pointed questions. He could have done without Farage, whose EU experience is extensive, but it is a hurdle he will either cross or circumnavigate around. I think Starmer would have tried to take us back in before the end of the parliament, if Reform had not been there, as some sort of unavoidable choice over an emergency engineered to allow just that. what I want to know sandy is where are all the new labour starmerites? they seem to have gone missing across the interwebby? ive been on numerous social media and various forums today and its total radio silence from the brothers and sisters. are they off on the long term sick already? I cannot help I am afraid this is the only place I frequent. I know of only one person who voted Labour but I have not asked my brother yet who is a strong Corbynite but has glimmers of being sensible. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 15:43:25 GMT
what I want to know sandy is where are all the new labour starmerites? they seem to have gone missing across the interwebby? ive been on numerous social media and various forums today and its total radio silence from the brothers and sisters. are they off on the long term sick already? I cannot help I am afraid this is the only place I frequent. I know of only one person who voted Labour but I have not asked my brother yet who is a strong Corbynite but has glimmers of being sensible. sandy I frequent many places online , and speak to many folk in real life about politics , and I dont know anyone yet who voted labour. where are these nine million people? My mate in paisley was a card carrying labour member who canvassed and did a lot of work for Neil Bibby , and even he can't stand what labour have now become under starmers leadership and didnt vote labour. |
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Post by see2 on Jul 9, 2024 19:01:27 GMT
The UK was bad enough last time, just blaming it on the EU was a case of looking for an excuse for UK failure. There is no possibility of the UK rejoining the EU at any level for at least a couple of generation, by which time Brexit right or wrong will be fully understood. It will not be understood if it has never really existed. Closer alignment and better relations are all shorthand for some form of EU membership and EU control. Brexit was about cutting the binding ties with teh EU so that our own decisions could be made in all things. Complete nonsense ^^ There can be no such thing as "some form of EU membership and EU control" because neither the EU nor the UK want anything to do with your suggestion. Cutting binding ties with the EU has happened, even if Brexit by the UK made a mess of it across the Irish sea. Any future agreements with the EU will only take place on equal terms and if mutually beneficial. |
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Post by see2 on Jul 9, 2024 19:04:29 GMT
It will not be understood if it has never really existed. Closer alignment and better relations are all shorthand for some form of EU membership and EU control. Brexit was about cutting the binding ties with teh EU so that our own decisions could be made in all things. I think everyone outside the deluded new labour bubble are aware that the close you get to the EU , the more rules you take on. Its rinse and repeat from these new labour clowns.. BRINO , and all the other guff that got proposed and rejected countless times post 2016. I was convinced starmer was going to win handsomely and take the uk back into the EU pre the election , now.......im not so sure he has the bottle on no mandate. Some of the hotheads like lammy are screaming about a reset , but starmer is very weak and cautious , especially with Farage sitting in parliament with him watching his every move. We just have to wait and see what starmer does. Im calling him out now.....shitebag. I see you are still spouting your ale house politics ^^ LOL |
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Post by see2 on Jul 9, 2024 19:09:30 GMT
I don't much care Farage says he is going to destroy the Tories, he is good at destruction, meanwhile Labour still couldn't fill a village hall themselves so they are self-destructing themselves. There is no love lost between the Westminster party and the electorate. ive been posting on these political forums since the mid 2000s and Steves old forum since 2008 , where we were formerly members of as you know sheep. I well remember labours 2005 victory , and even in 2008 ,after the crash the forums and interwebby was full of them. On Facebook , twitter , social media and these old politics forums , labours supporters this time round are as rare as rocking horse shit. I find it really bizarre. Who the fuck voted them , and where are all the starmerites? I mean , I know they only got 2 / 10 of the electorate , a third of those that could be bothered , but where are they all? are they in hiding already , unable to take responsibility to what they have done? They are busy outnumbering the opposition, and laying down a better future for the UK and all who live here  |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 9, 2024 19:18:43 GMT
It will not be understood if it has never really existed. Closer alignment and better relations are all shorthand for some form of EU membership and EU control. Brexit was about cutting the binding ties with teh EU so that our own decisions could be made in all things. Complete nonsense ^^ There can be no such thing as "some form of EU membership and EU control" because neither the EU nor the UK want anything to do with your suggestion. Cutting binding ties with the EU has happened, even if Brexit by the UK made a mess of it across the Irish sea. Any future agreements with the EU will only take place on equal terms and if mutually beneficial. What is 'mutually beneficial' is of course a moot point. Starmer may think that preparing the ground for rejoining is 'mutually beneficial' as would the EU. The binding ties have been severed but they can be prepared for use again and the ground prepared to take us by stealth into some form of binding relationship. That is both possible and likely. You seem to disregard the duplicity of the EU project that has been its Hallmark certainly since Heath's time and certainly since they snatched our fisheries right from under our noses. |
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Post by see2 on Jul 9, 2024 19:31:21 GMT
Complete nonsense ^^ There can be no such thing as "some form of EU membership and EU control" because neither the EU nor the UK want anything to do with your suggestion. Cutting binding ties with the EU has happened, even if Brexit by the UK made a mess of it across the Irish sea. Any future agreements with the EU will only take place on equal terms and if mutually beneficial. Starmer may think that preparing the ground for rejoining is 'mutually beneficial' as would the EU. The binding ties have been severed but they can be prepared for use again and the ground prepared to take us by stealth into some form of binding relationship. That is both possible and likely. You seem to disregard the duplicity of the EU project that has been its Hallmark certainly since Heath's time and certainly since they snatched our fisheries right from under our noses. No it isn't. Either provide proof that Starmer is thinking about preparing the ground for rejoining the EU, or get real with your approach to debating matters. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 9, 2024 21:21:27 GMT
What is 'mutually beneficial' is of course a moot point. Starmer may think that preparing the ground for rejoining is 'mutually beneficial' as would the EU. The binding ties have been severed but they can be prepared for use again and the ground prepared to take us by stealth into some form of binding relationship. That is both possible and likely. You seem to disregard the duplicity of the EU project that has been its Hallmark certainly since Heath's time and certainly since they snatched our fisheries right from under our noses. No it isn't. Either provide proof that Starmer is thinking about preparing the ground for rejoining the EU, or get real with your approach to debating matters. Is it mutually beneficial to have a secret agreement that will pave the way for future rejoining? I would say it would certainly be viewed as such by both parties. Of course 'mutually beneficial' depends on viewpoint and what one believes as regards the EU and the UK, so it is not just moot it is dependant on the individual. Starmer tried to overturn the referendum and campaigned on that ticket. He now says he will not rejoin but we know how pledges and promises work in politics and the history of the EEC/EU is littered with statements misguiding the public and being duplicitous in intents. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 10, 2024 1:03:56 GMT
No it isn't. Either provide proof that Starmer is thinking about preparing the ground for rejoining the EU, or get real with your approach to debating matters. ? I would say it would certainly be viewed as such by both parties. Of course 'mutually beneficial' depends on viewpoint and what one believes as regards the EU and the UK, so it is not just moot it is dependant on the individual. Starmer tried to overturn the referendum and campaigned on that ticket. He now says he will not rejoin but we know how pledges and promises work in politics and the history of the EEC/EU is littered with statements misguiding the public and being duplicitous in intents. Would that be like the secret agreement the Tories had with corrupt bankers to impoverish the nation to protect bankers bonuses? The beauty of alleged "secret agreements" is that you never have to provide evidence they are real; because 99 times out of 100 they are not. All The Best |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 10, 2024 6:00:09 GMT
Complete nonsense ^^ There can be no such thing as "some form of EU membership and EU control" because neither the EU nor the UK want anything to do with your suggestion. Cutting binding ties with the EU has happened, even if Brexit by the UK made a mess of it across the Irish sea. Any future agreements with the EU will only take place on equal terms and if mutually beneficial. What is 'mutually beneficial' is of course a moot point. Starmer may think that preparing the ground for rejoining is 'mutually beneficial' as would the EU. The binding ties have been severed but they can be prepared for use again and the ground prepared to take us by stealth into some form of binding relationship. That is both possible and likely. You seem to disregard the duplicity of the EU project that has been its Hallmark certainly since Heath's time and certainly since they snatched our fisheries right from under our noses. I don't think Starmer could take the UK back into the EU. The UK could do some serious damage to its industry as Wolfgang Munchau explains: Read on here: www.eurointelligence.com/column/how-likely-is-a-brexit-reversal |
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