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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 4, 2024 14:21:07 GMT
So New Labour opening the floodgates of Immigration had absolutely no impact on the call for, or result of, the referendum? I knew you were deluded, but not this deluded. All The Best Correct. The country had an expanding economy and a shortage of - skilled, semi skilled, entrepreneurs, professionals, like teachers, plumbers, electricians trained Plasterers, brickies and no doubt more, so if you are going to back date any responsibilities, then lets go back to the destruction of thousands of small businesses as the number of people out of work almost hit 4 million, and the traditional apprenticeship systems were destroyed by the introduction of 'Self Employed'. Be honest, it was a Tory government that decided on a referendum, no one forced them to do it. And in terms of reducing the numbers entering this country it has failed miserably anyway. Even after the elimination of FOM from the EU. You have a good imagination, unfortunately it continues to make you look like an ill-informed fool. Bloody hell I hope they haven't let you anywhere near a ballot box. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 4, 2024 14:35:32 GMT
So New Labour opening the floodgates of Immigration had absolutely no impact on the call for, or result of, the referendum? I knew you were deluded, but not this deluded. All The Best Correct. The country had an expanding economy and a shortage of - skilled, semi skilled, entrepreneurs, professionals, like teachers, plumbers, electricians trained Plasterers, brickies and no doubt more, so if you are going to back date any responsibilities, then lets go back to the destruction of thousands of small businesses as the number of people out of work almost hit 4 million, and the traditional apprenticeship systems were destroyed by the introduction of 'Self Employed'. Be honest, it was a Tory government that decided on a referendum, no one forced them to do it. And in terms of reducing the numbers entering this country it has failed miserably anyway. Even after the elimination of FOM from the EU. You have a good imagination, unfortunately it continues to make you look like an ill-informed fool. When there are shortages then training and expansion in those trades is to be encouraged internally. Ministers have the stats people to back them up and there should have been warnings. If one expands the ability of outsiders to come in to fill the vacancies then the population increases, especially locally, and shortages pop up in other places, which is exactly what happened. It also resulted in the depression of wages within the skills where the shortages existed as demand was met by the supply and wages stayed down. No way to plan an economy most especially now where net zero is a specific policy that an increase in population will make much more expensive to meet. Something is truly askew. |
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Post by see2 on Jul 4, 2024 14:36:07 GMT
I don't recognise referendum as an extension of democracy. It is a form of democracy which IMO is beyond this so politically divided country, with so many voters being so easily misled when voting. Example, Thatcher in office for 11 years, she was so bad that despite the electorate being conned into backing her, she was eventually dumped by her own party. You recognition is not required for a fact to be a FACT. The only reason you oppose Referenda is because you can't control the outcome. You don't want Democracy you want Eurocracy. All The Best Your claim of a fact is nothing more than your opinion. I don't need your lies that's for sure. I back representative democracy, as apparently most people in the Western countries do, as the best way forward, before anything any of the odd-fellows comes up with. If you don't feel embarrassed by the sourness and division caused by the last referendum, then IMO you should. It was good at dividing the country exposed by Farage's comment that he would not accept the small majority difference in the vote if it had gone against Brexit. It is probably little wonder that there are many people who feel cheated by the referendum. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 4, 2024 14:36:26 GMT
Latest polling (which I would doubt is accurate) shows Reform still doing well - now ahead of the Conservatives and forecast to get 74 seats compared to just 3 for the Tories. What is more interesting is that with just 38% of the vote Labour could get 75% of the Parliamentary seats - 38% being what Corbyn achieved in 2017 and lost.   Well, whatever the result is I'm not staying up all night to find out. But I doubt that prediction is accurate. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 4, 2024 14:44:36 GMT
You recognition is not required for a fact to be a FACT. The only reason you oppose Referenda is because you can't control the outcome. You don't want Democracy you want Eurocracy. All The Best Your claim of a fact is nothing more than your opinion. I don't need your lies that's for sure. I back representative democracy, as apparently most people in the Western countries do, as the best way forward, before anything any of the odd-fellows comes up with. If you don't feel embarrassed by the sourness and division caused by the last referendum, then IMO you should. It was good at dividing the country exposed by Farage's comment that he would not accept the small majority difference in the vote if it had gone against Brexit. It is probably little wonder that there are many people who feel cheated by the referendum. And if a direct referendum isn't representative democracy then what exactly is? Furthermore, if I'm embarrassed about anything to do with the referendum it's the losers inability to accept a democratic result because it didn't go their way. |
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Post by see2 on Jul 4, 2024 14:50:14 GMT
Correct. The country had an expanding economy and a shortage of - skilled, semi skilled, entrepreneurs, professionals, like teachers, plumbers, electricians trained Plasterers, brickies and no doubt more, so if you are going to back date any responsibilities, then lets go back to the destruction of thousands of small businesses as the number of people out of work almost hit 4 million, and the traditional apprenticeship systems were destroyed by the introduction of 'Self Employed'. Be honest, it was a Tory government that decided on a referendum, no one forced them to do it. And in terms of reducing the numbers entering this country it has failed miserably anyway. Even after the elimination of FOM from the EU. You have a good imagination, unfortunately it continues to make you look like an ill-informed fool. Bloody hell I hope they haven't let you anywhere near a ballot box. Yes, I know you Sunak poodles like to see him denigrating the opposition, insinuating and lying about taxation and spending. The highest taxation, so he trims a little off National insurance which amongst other thing funds the NHS, where he knows the Tories have cut the annual funding by half and robbed billions out of the funding for hospital building maintenance. A nasty little con job. I couldn't miss the opportunity to try to put an end to Tory lying, insinuating denigration and nastiness. I was one of the first to vote Labour with my postal vote LOL. If Starmer fails to get elected it would be stupidity as normal. Voted against by Dome-heads. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 4, 2024 15:00:29 GMT
So New Labour opening the floodgates of Immigration had absolutely no impact on the call for, or result of, the referendum? I knew you were deluded, but not this deluded. All The Best Correct. The Red Wall constituencies abandoned Labour and joined the Tories precisely because they had been thrown under the bus by Labour's open door immigration policy. Everyone knows this. All The Best |
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Post by see2 on Jul 4, 2024 15:03:36 GMT
Your claim of a fact is nothing more than your opinion. I don't need your lies that's for sure. I back representative democracy, as apparently most people in the Western countries do, as the best way forward, before anything any of the odd-fellows comes up with. If you don't feel embarrassed by the sourness and division caused by the last referendum, then IMO you should. It was good at dividing the country exposed by Farage's comment that he would not accept the small majority difference in the vote if it had gone against Brexit. It is probably little wonder that there are many people who feel cheated by the referendum. And if a direct referendum isn't representative democracy then what exactly is? Furthermore, if I'm embarrassed about anything to do with the referendum it's the losers inability to accept a democratic result because it didn't go their way. The Representative Democracy we already practice. I take it you mean that minority of those who voted remain who don't accept the narrow result. Farage would not have accepted such a "narrow defeat" if the shoe had been on the other foot. It's just a human problem that wouldn't exist if a reasonable set majority had been required for a win. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 4, 2024 15:04:45 GMT
Bloody hell I hope they haven't let you anywhere near a ballot box. Yes, I know you Sunak poodles like to see him denigrating the opposition, insinuating and lying about taxation and spending. The highest taxation, so he trims a little off National insurance which amongst other thing funds the NHS, where he knows the Tories have cut the annual funding by half and robbed billions out of the funding for hospital building maintenance. A nasty little con job. I couldn't miss the opportunity to try to put an end to Tory lying, insinuating denigration and nastiness. I was one of the first to vote Labour with my postal vote LOL. If Starmer fails to get elected it would be stupidity as normal. Voted against by Dome-heads. Sunak has cost the conservatives this GE, he should have been kicked out months ago to give the Tories a glimmer of hope, we have him to thank for the possibility of a big victory for Starmer, I doubt Sunak has many 'poodles' round him more like rottweilers . |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 4, 2024 15:09:38 GMT
And if a direct referendum isn't representative democracy then what exactly is? Furthermore, if I'm embarrassed about anything to do with the referendum it's the losers inability to accept a democratic result because it didn't go their way. The Representative Democracy we already practice. I take it you mean that minority of those who voted remain who don't accept the narrow result. Farage would not have accepted such a "narrow defeat" if the shoe had been on the other foot. It's just a human problem that wouldn't exist if a reasonable set majority had been required for a win. What's Farage got to do with it? As you lot keep pointing out, he's never even been an MP. |
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Post by see2 on Jul 4, 2024 15:10:54 GMT
The Red Wall constituencies abandoned Labour and joined the Tories precisely because they had been thrown under the bus by Labour's open door immigration policy. Everyone knows this. All The Best Intelligent people know you are capable of creating your own bullshit when it suits you ^^^ Behave yourself, you are referring to an event created by lies from the Tories, 9 years after Labour left office. You distorting reality for personal reasons is quite distasteful. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 4, 2024 15:13:37 GMT
And if a direct referendum isn't representative democracy then what exactly is? Furthermore, if I'm embarrassed about anything to do with the referendum it's the losers inability to accept a democratic result because it didn't go their way. The Representative Democracy we already practice. Representative Democracy is NOT Direct Democracy. All The Best |
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Post by see2 on Jul 4, 2024 15:13:44 GMT
The Representative Democracy we already practice. I take it you mean that minority of those who voted remain who don't accept the narrow result. Farage would not have accepted such a "narrow defeat" if the shoe had been on the other foot. It's just a human problem that wouldn't exist if a reasonable set majority had been required for a win. What's Farage got to do with it? As you lot keep pointing out, he's never even been an MP. Open up your mind, its fair comment about Farage, who probably did more than most to win the vote for Brexit. |
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Post by see2 on Jul 4, 2024 15:17:17 GMT
The Representative Democracy we already practice. Representative Democracy is NOT Direct Democracy. All The Best EXACTLY. It helps to avoid the unreliable whims of public opinion. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 4, 2024 15:17:38 GMT
The Red Wall constituencies abandoned Labour and joined the Tories precisely because they had been thrown under the bus by Labour's open door immigration policy. Everyone knows this. All The Best Intelligent people know you are capable of creating your own bullshit when it suits you ^^^ Behave yourself, you are referring to an event created by lies from the Tories, 9 years after Labour left office. You distorting reality for personal reasons is quite distasteful. Look, you can deny the truth all you like, it is what you do after all. Freedom of Movement of labour, especially cheap labour to depress domestic wages, while driving up living costs is a key tool of globalisation. All The Best |
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