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Post by Pacifico on Jun 17, 2024 11:01:54 GMT
What are the 'everything else'? - what specific policies are you talking about? You'd need to ask the Tory Party which policies they just made costing up on the back of a fag packet for, No point asking me, I am not the one who the Civil Service have said are in serious danger of deliberately misleading the public; that is the Tories. All The Best so no idea about the subject under discussion then.. OK |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 17, 2024 11:23:22 GMT
I dont have to prove anything. The Treasury have put out an estimate of the cost - You are repeating the same lie as Sunak. The Treasury only costed things there were clear policies for; everything else was based on Tory guestimates and propaganda. All The Best How can it be a lie?
Starmer has produced a spending manifesto, and the institute for fiscal studies does the maths.
and the maths work out that to cost Starmers proposed spending manifesto every household would pay at least £2000 a year more to sustain that spending.
other than that Starmer must have a magic money tree that we know nothing about.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 17, 2024 12:31:51 GMT
Starmer relies on everyone went to the same school of arithmetic as Abbott.
It doesn't matter if it's Starmer/Sunak/Davey/Farage, their spending manifestos will be scrutinised by the experts.
Starmer most likely to be the next serving government is under the spotlight even more.
So if he doesn't burden households with a £2000+ increase to cover his spending manifesto, where do you think he's going to get that money from?
It has to be cut backs all the way, or their usual preferred MO .... borrowing, hence the national debt will sore, then when they've completely fucked us over and the country is bankrupt in steps the Tories with their austerity cuts, because it's the only way to bring down Labour's borrowing.
Letting Labour run the country is like giving your teenage tearaway kid your American Express card.
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Post by aristaeus on Jun 17, 2024 14:04:37 GMT
IFS says Reform UK's plans 'don't add up' and would cost more than it claims 'by tens of billions of pounds per year'
The Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has published its assessment of Reform UK’s tax and spending plans and it says they “don’t add up”. And they are not just relatively unrealistic, it says. It says the costings are out “by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year”.
Here is a an excerpt from the analysis.
Reform UK proposes tax cuts that it estimates would cost nearly £90bn per year, and spending increases of £50bn per year. It claims that it would pay for these through £150bn per year of reductions in other spending, covering public services, debt interest and working-age benefits.
This would represent a big cut to the size of the state. Regardless of the pros and cons of shrinking the state, or of any of their specific measures, the package as a whole is problematic. Spending reductions would save less than stated, and the tax cuts would cost more than stated, by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year. Meanwhile the spending increases would cost more than stated if they are to achieve their objectives …
Even with the extremely optimistic assumptions about how much economic growth would increase, the sums in this manifesto do not add up. Whilst Reform’s manifesto gives a clear sense of priority, a government could only implement parts of this package, or would need to find other ways to help pay for it, which would mean losers not specified.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 17, 2024 14:15:44 GMT
IFS says Reform UK's plans 'don't add up' and would cost more than it claims 'by tens of billions of pounds per year'The Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has published its assessment of Reform UK’s tax and spending plans and it says they “don’t add up”. And they are not just relatively unrealistic, it says. It says the costings are out “by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year”. Here is a an excerpt from the analysis. Reform UK proposes tax cuts that it estimates would cost nearly £90bn per year, and spending increases of £50bn per year. It claims that it would pay for these through £150bn per year of reductions in other spending, covering public services, debt interest and working-age benefits. This would represent a big cut to the size of the state. Regardless of the pros and cons of shrinking the state, or of any of their specific measures, the package as a whole is problematic. Spending reductions would save less than stated, and the tax cuts would cost more than stated, by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year. Meanwhile the spending increases would cost more than stated if they are to achieve their objectives … Even with the extremely optimistic assumptions about how much economic growth would increase, the sums in this manifesto do not add up. Whilst Reform’s manifesto gives a clear sense of priority, a government could only implement parts of this package, or would need to find other ways to help pay for it, which would mean losers not specified. That's how it works, they can't just bandy mad figures around and hope no one fact checks them, they are all under the same scrutiny, I notice you never mentioned Labour's wild spending sprees. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 17, 2024 14:29:14 GMT
IFS says Reform UK's plans 'don't add up' and would cost more than it claims 'by tens of billions of pounds per year'The Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has published its assessment of Reform UK’s tax and spending plans and it says they “don’t add up”. And they are not just relatively unrealistic, it says. It says the costings are out “by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year”. Here is a an excerpt from the analysis. Reform UK proposes tax cuts that it estimates would cost nearly £90bn per year, and spending increases of £50bn per year. It claims that it would pay for these through £150bn per year of reductions in other spending, covering public services, debt interest and working-age benefits. This would represent a big cut to the size of the state. Regardless of the pros and cons of shrinking the state, or of any of their specific measures, the package as a whole is problematic. Spending reductions would save less than stated, and the tax cuts would cost more than stated, by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year. Meanwhile the spending increases would cost more than stated if they are to achieve their objectives … Even with the extremely optimistic assumptions about how much economic growth would increase, the sums in this manifesto do not add up. Whilst Reform’s manifesto gives a clear sense of priority, a government could only implement parts of this package, or would need to find other ways to help pay for it, which would mean losers not specified. The thing is Reform UK are not making manifesto pledges. Farage is quite open about the fact that Labour will form the next government and by the time of the next election in 2029 things will be very different. Reform UK publishing a manifesto based on todays economic situation would be a waste of time. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 17, 2024 14:45:37 GMT
IFS says Reform UK's plans 'don't add up' and would cost more than it claims 'by tens of billions of pounds per year'The Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has published its assessment of Reform UK’s tax and spending plans and it says they “don’t add up”. And they are not just relatively unrealistic, it says. It says the costings are out “by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year”. Here is a an excerpt from the analysis. Reform UK proposes tax cuts that it estimates would cost nearly £90bn per year, and spending increases of £50bn per year. It claims that it would pay for these through £150bn per year of reductions in other spending, covering public services, debt interest and working-age benefits. This would represent a big cut to the size of the state. Regardless of the pros and cons of shrinking the state, or of any of their specific measures, the package as a whole is problematic. Spending reductions would save less than stated, and the tax cuts would cost more than stated, by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year. Meanwhile the spending increases would cost more than stated if they are to achieve their objectives … Even with the extremely optimistic assumptions about how much economic growth would increase, the sums in this manifesto do not add up. Whilst Reform’s manifesto gives a clear sense of priority, a government could only implement parts of this package, or would need to find other ways to help pay for it, which would mean losers not specified. The thing is Reform UK are not making manifesto pledges. Farage is quite open about the fact that Labour will form the next government and by the time of the next election in 2029 things will be very different. Reform UK publishing a manifesto based on todays economic situation would be a waste of time. You seem to be implying that people are going to vote for Reform in spite of their manifesto, rather than because of. Now I suspect that you're correct, but doesn't that mean that in essence they are a protest party, rather than the party of opposition that Farage is trying to portray? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 17, 2024 15:00:43 GMT
You seem to be implying that people are going to vote for Reform in spite of their manifesto, rather than because of. Now I suspect that you're correct, but doesn't that mean that in essence they are a protest party, rather than the party of opposition that Farage is trying to portray? Reform UK are not publishing a manifesto. And yes of course Reform are a protest party, as UKIP was. They are protesting over the complete lack of a centre right party in British politics, and come July 4th Reform may be the voice of opposition, yes the Tories really are that bad. Will Reform prove to be the kick up the arse the Tories desperately need? We'll see, time will tell. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 17, 2024 15:44:10 GMT
The thing is Reform UK are not making manifesto pledges. Farage is quite open about the fact that Labour will form the next government and by the time of the next election in 2029 things will be very different. Reform UK publishing a manifesto based on todays economic situation would be a waste of time. You seem to be implying that people are going to vote for Reform in spite of their manifesto, rather than because of. Now I suspect that you're correct, but doesn't that mean that in essence they are a protest party, rather than the party of opposition that Farage is trying to portray? The bigger picture, Farage took charge of Reform 3rd June, 14 days later he's neck-and-neck if not ahead of the Tories in the polls.
If Farage can pull that off in 14 days, it looks like people aren't interested in manifestos that aren't worth the paper they are written on, we action not words on a paper.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 17, 2024 15:49:40 GMT
You'd need to ask the Tory Party which policies they just made costing up on the back of a fag packet for, No point asking me, I am not the one who the Civil Service have said are in serious danger of deliberately misleading the public; that is the Tories. All The Best so no idea about the subject under discussion then.. OK Same as you then. Given you've presented no evidence at all either, but just blindly parrot tory propaganda that the Head of the Civil Service has already said is highly likely to be mislead people. I didn't make shit up about Labour, the Tories did - go ask them. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 17, 2024 15:54:16 GMT
You seem to be implying that people are going to vote for Reform in spite of their manifesto, rather than because of. Now I suspect that you're correct, but doesn't that mean that in essence they are a protest party, rather than the party of opposition that Farage is trying to portray? Reform UK are not publishing a manifesto. And yes of course Reform are a protest party, as UKIP was. They are protesting over the complete lack of a centre right party in British politics, and come July 4th Reform may be the voice of opposition, yes the Tories really are that bad. Will Reform prove to be the kick up the arse the Tories desperately need? We'll see, time will tell. Well, given how fucked this country is because enough idiots, including me, bought into the UKIP propaganda should we really be buying into Reform's propaganda? Reform are not a credible Political Party, looking at their current roster they have no credible politicians as candidates. If anyone wants to protest the current state of UK Politics (and there is much to protest about) just spoil your ballot at the next General Election; it will achieve exactly the same without giving publicity oxygen to an egotist who cares about nothing but his own media presence. All The Best |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 17, 2024 15:59:27 GMT
I say that if you think Reform has better ideas than other parties then vote for them . If you don’t then vote for the party you think has the best ideas.
Revolutionary eh?
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Post by see2 on Jun 17, 2024 16:02:25 GMT
You seem to be implying that people are going to vote for Reform in spite of their manifesto, rather than because of. Now I suspect that you're correct, but doesn't that mean that in essence they are a protest party, rather than the party of opposition that Farage is trying to portray? Reform UK are not publishing a manifesto. And yes of course Reform are a protest party, as UKIP was. They are protesting over the complete lack of a centre right party in British politics, and come July 4th Reform may be the voice of opposition, yes the Tories really are that bad. Will Reform prove to be the kick up the arse the Tories desperately need? We'll see, time will tell. And what happened to UKIP? On your second highlighted comment, you are just romancing your political dreams. Reform are a right wing mob, just as Farage comes from the right of the Tory Party, and Farage backs the most dangerous Right-Winger in politics today, namely Donald Trump. who is a man backed by numerous extreme right-wing movements. You endanger everyone when you play about with the Hard Right which encourages the Far-Right. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 17, 2024 16:04:13 GMT
Reform UK are not publishing a manifesto. And yes of course Reform are a protest party, as UKIP was. They are protesting over the complete lack of a centre right party in British politics, and come July 4th Reform may be the voice of opposition, yes the Tories really are that bad. Will Reform prove to be the kick up the arse the Tories desperately need? We'll see, time will tell. Well, given how fucked this country is because enough idiots, including me, bought into the UKIP propaganda should we really be buying into Reform's propaganda? Reform are not a credible Political Party, looking at their current roster they have no credible politicians as candidates. If anyone wants to protest the current state of UK Politics (and there is much to protest about) just spoil your ballot at the next General Election; it will achieve exactly the same without giving publicity oxygen to an egotist who cares about nothing but his own media presence. All The Best Whoa there! Two questions: What UKIP propaganda are you talking about? What Reform propaganda are you talking about? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 17, 2024 16:12:28 GMT
And what happened to UKIP? On your second highlighted comment, you are just romancing your political dreams. Reform are a right wing mob, just as Farage comes from the right of the Tory Party, and Farage backs the most dangerous Right-Winger in politics today, namely Donald Trump. who is a man backed by numerous extreme right-wing movements. You endanger everyone when you play about with the Hard Right which encourages the Far-Right. Sometimes I worry about you lefties, no honestly I do. I mean who's using the braincell at see2 Towers this afternoon? It doesn't appear to be you. UKIP were 100% successful, in fact UKIP is an incredibly rare example of a political party who actually achieved it's aim. UKIP and of course Farage campaigned for a referendum, when UKIP support got to 12.7% Cameron was forced to give in. Anyone who thinks UKIP were not a success is either a blithering idiot, or a bitter left wing remainiac. Tell me see2, which are you?.. |
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