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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 3, 2024 17:03:45 GMT
I doubt the Tories know any such thing. They'll probably decide that they weren't woke enough and lurch even further to the left. I very much doubt it. We'll see. Well I admire your optimism but I suspect that's a triumph of hope over all recent evidence. Not that I much care, the Tories will have to move a lot further to the right before I'll vote for them again. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 3, 2024 17:22:58 GMT
I very much doubt it. We'll see. Well I admire your optimism but I suspect that's a triumph of hope over all recent evidence. Not that I much care, the Tories will have to move a lot further to the right before I'll vote for them again. I think the political landscape will change a lot over the next 12 months and there are probably a few things in the pipeline no one is expecting. A lot depends how well Reform do next month, if they do well, and now Farage is standing many people expect them to do well, then post election the Tories will have two choices: Move to the centre right, or stay centrist and become irrelevant. TSM, there isn't room for two centrist parties, over the next two or three years the Tories will move to the centre right. |
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Post by patman post on Jun 3, 2024 17:35:42 GMT
The problem for most on here is that the UK electorate is drawn from a general population that’s fundamentally middle of the road conservative. That’s why governments have simply deviated between Tory and Labour since WWII.
Lurches to either Left or Right upset voters, which is why Foot and Corbyn and rabid Thatcherism got incumbent governments following those ideas got turfed out.
The young carolling “Oh Jeremy Corbyn” at Glastonbury are unlikely to be replicated for Farage, Starmer, or Sunak. So what’s the long game…?
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 3, 2024 17:40:39 GMT
Doesn't it matter who actually retains their seat, rather than who the party select? I predict that the Tories will get more than currently predicted, maybe 150, but if they did only get double figures, you only have a small pool to select your shadow cabinet from. Really, you appear to rely on polls over thoughts. I'm sure you'd love the Tories to do well enough just to maintain the status quo. After all, Tories who function like Labour aren't going to be much of an opposition. Yes, I want the Tories to be an effective opposition. I don't want Labour to have no effective opposition any more than you do. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 3, 2024 17:42:24 GMT
Well I admire your optimism but I suspect that's a triumph of hope over all recent evidence. Not that I much care, the Tories will have to move a lot further to the right before I'll vote for them again. I think the political landscape will change a lot over the next 12 months and there are probably a few things in the pipeline no one is expecting. A lot depends how well Reform do next month, if they do well, and now Farage is standing many people expect them to do well, then post election the Tories will have two choices: Move to the centre right, or stay centrist and become irrelevant. TSM, there isn't room for two centrist parties, over the next two or three years the Tories will move to the centre right. And what if the Tory MPs left are majority One Nation? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 3, 2024 17:47:39 GMT
The problem for most on here is that the UK electorate is drawn from a general population that’s fundamentally middle of the road conservative. That’s why governments have simply deviated between Tory and Labour since WWII. Lurches to either Left or Right upset voters, which is why Foot and Corbyn and rabid Thatcherism got incumbent governments following those ideas got turfed out. The young carolling “Oh Jeremy Corbyn” at Glastonbury are unlikely to be replicated for Farage, Starmer, or Sunak. So what’s the long game…? Mostly Tory  . You say 'rabid' Thatcherism! What exactly was 'rabid' about Thatcherism? Could someone who won three elections really be that bad? And those clueless young pillocks at Glasto represented a microscopically small percentage of the electorate, which is why Corbyn and Starmer took the Labour party to their worst defeat since 1935. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 3, 2024 17:55:46 GMT
I think the political landscape will change a lot over the next 12 months and there are probably a few things in the pipeline no one is expecting. A lot depends how well Reform do next month, if they do well, and now Farage is standing many people expect them to do well, then post election the Tories will have two choices: Move to the centre right, or stay centrist and become irrelevant. TSM, there isn't room for two centrist parties, over the next two or three years the Tories will move to the centre right. And what if the Tory MPs left are majority One Nation? That's exactly what Reform and Farage hope for. But I don't think the Tories are quite that stupid, after the election when they are settled in opposition there will be a period of reflection and some serious discussions behind closed doors ref the direction the party must take. As I said, they will move to the centre right or face electoral oblivion. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 3, 2024 18:26:17 GMT
Well I admire your optimism but I suspect that's a triumph of hope over all recent evidence. Not that I much care, the Tories will have to move a lot further to the right before I'll vote for them again. I think the political landscape will change a lot over the next 12 months and there are probably a few things in the pipeline no one is expecting. A lot depends how well Reform do next month, if they do well, and now Farage is standing many people expect them to do well, then post election the Tories will have two choices: Move to the centre right, or stay centrist and become irrelevant. TSM, there isn't room for two centrist parties, over the next two or three years the Tories will move to the centre right. I very much doubt it. We'll see. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 3, 2024 18:45:22 GMT
I think the political landscape will change a lot over the next 12 months and there are probably a few things in the pipeline no one is expecting. A lot depends how well Reform do next month, if they do well, and now Farage is standing many people expect them to do well, then post election the Tories will have two choices: Move to the centre right, or stay centrist and become irrelevant. TSM, there isn't room for two centrist parties, over the next two or three years the Tories will move to the centre right. I very much doubt it. We'll see. All I can say is god help our country. What a fucking state of affairs... |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 3, 2024 18:48:06 GMT
I very much doubt it. We'll see. All I can say is god help our country. What a fucking state of affairs... Well indeed. We seem to be lurching from New Labour to Blue Labour and back again.
And still some people think that's worth voting for.
No wonder nothing changes.
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Post by patman post on Jun 3, 2024 19:06:44 GMT
The problem for most on hhere is that the UK electorate is drawn from a general population that’s fundamentally middle of the road conservative. That’s why governments have simply deviated between Tory and Labour since WWII. Lurches to either Left or Right upset voters, which is why Foot and Corbyn and rabid Thatcherism got incumbent governments following those ideas got turfed out. The young carolling “Oh Jeremy Corbyn” at Glastonbury are unlikely to be replicated for Farage, Starmer, or Sunak. So what’s the long game…? Mostly Tory . You say 'rabid' Thatcherism! What exactly was 'rabid' about Thatcherism? Could someone who won three elections really be that bad? And those clueless young pillocks at Glasto represented a microscopically small percentage of the electorate, which is why Corbyn and Starmer took the Labour party to their worst defeat since 1935. Who’s mostly Tory? Certainly not the UK population at present. The UK electorate has shown its conservatism and preference for middle of the road politics ever since WWII — Foot, Corbyn, and the later Thatcher (who began to believe she could walk on water) moved too far away from the middle for them. Farage can only be hoping to get a toe-hold in Westminster so that he can ape the Canadian model in which the Conservatives were almost wiped out and Canadian Reform took it over and rebuilt the party. Seems it’s all to play for… |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 3, 2024 19:46:58 GMT
Mostly Tory . You say 'rabid' Thatcherism! What exactly was 'rabid' about Thatcherism? Could someone who won three elections really be that bad? And those clueless young pillocks at Glasto represented a microscopically small percentage of the electorate, which is why Corbyn and Starmer took the Labour party to their worst defeat since 1935. Who’s mostly Tory? Certainly not the UK population at present. The UK electorate has shown its conservatism and preference for middle of the road politics ever since WWII — Foot, Corbyn, and the later Thatcher (who began to believe she could walk on water) moved too far away from the middle for them. Farage can only be hoping to get a toe-hold in Westminster so that he can ape the Canadian model in which the Conservatives were almost wiped out and Canadian Reform took it over and rebuilt the party.
Seems it’s all to play for… But not built better by anymeans. Canada in now more fucking woke than what we are in the UK....You lefties certainly like to be told what to think and what to wear etc....Oh and BTW I don't rquire any lefty woke prick to be offended on my behalf..
Canada introduces sweeping new online safety rules...
Ex-military general says Canada being destroyed by 'woke movement' ...
‘Woke’ Canada has gone from ludicrous to dangerous...
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 3, 2024 19:55:47 GMT
Who’s mostly Tory? Certainly not the UK population at present... Actually, I'd say it's certainly not the Tory Party at present. The UK electorate has shown its conservatism and preference for middle of the road politics ever since WWII... Indeed, and the current Tory Party have strayed too far in the woke, centre left direction. Hence why they're set to lose a sizeable chunk of their vote to Reform. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 4, 2024 8:55:01 GMT
Mostly Tory . You say 'rabid' Thatcherism! What exactly was 'rabid' about Thatcherism? Could someone who won three elections really be that bad? And those clueless young pillocks at Glasto represented a microscopically small percentage of the electorate, which is why Corbyn and Starmer took the Labour party to their worst defeat since 1935. Who’s mostly Tory? Certainly not the UK population at present. The UK electorate has shown its conservatism and preference for middle of the road politics ever since WWII — Foot, Corbyn, and the later Thatcher (who began to believe she could walk on water) moved too far away from the middle for them. Farage can only be hoping to get a toe-hold in Westminster so that he can ape the Canadian model in which the Conservatives were almost wiped out and Canadian Reform took it over and rebuilt the party. Seems it’s all to play for… You said governments had 'deviated between Tory and Labour since WW2', I'm not sure deviated is the right word, but overall the Tories have been far more successful than Labour, which is why I said 'mostly Tory'. For some reason you mention Foot, Corbyn and Thatcher without pointing out that Foot and Corbyn represented the left wing Labour party, and they both failed, miserably. Thatcher on the other hand represented centre right Conservativism, won three elections and was our longest serving prime minister for 200 years. Lefties sneer at Farage and Reform, to be expected. But behind closed doors both Labour and the Tories will be hoping Farage is not as successful with Reform as he was with UKIP. I think they will be disappointed because people are pissed off with the Tories and they don't trust Labour. This election just came alive. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 4, 2024 9:27:35 GMT
I think the political landscape will change a lot over the next 12 months and there are probably a few things in the pipeline no one is expecting. A lot depends how well Reform do next month, if they do well, and now Farage is standing many people expect them to do well, then post election the Tories will have two choices: Move to the centre right, or stay centrist and become irrelevant. TSM, there isn't room for two centrist parties, over the next two or three years the Tories will move to the centre right. I very much doubt it. We'll see. OK, how about this for a prediction: 1) The Tory vote collapses, Reform do better than anyone expected and effectively become the opposition. 2) Over the next five years largely due to prime minister Starmers very unpopular net zero, immigration and pro EU policies, Reform under Farage's leadership becomes hugely popular. 3) Starmer resigns from a very unpopular Labour government and is replaced by left wing Raynor, the Labour governments troubles go from bad to worse. 4) The 2029 general election becomes a two way race between Reform UK and a reinvented centre right Conservative party. Labour are destined for a decade in the political wilderness. See? I've got is sussed. I'm a genius.  |
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. You say 'rabid' Thatcherism! What exactly was 'rabid' about Thatcherism? Could someone who won three elections really be that bad? And those clueless young pillocks at Glasto represented a microscopically small percentage of the electorate, which is why Corbyn and Starmer took the Labour party to their worst defeat since 1935.
