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Post by Bentley on May 24, 2024 17:35:39 GMT
None of that refutes a single point that I made . The West did not export CATL. It was founded by a Chinese man. Compare to the failure that was BritishVolt.
What I'm trying to get across to your high and mighty self is this country needs to buck its ideas up rather than run museums of past achievements. I was at Bristol Station the other day and looking through the leaflets of things to do. Over 80% were museums. This is how we earn our bread, boasting to our younger generations and tourists how great we once were, not how great we are in the now. The first step is to shut up about criticising the Chinese, who are actually doing a proper job.
You should learn to read . I never said the West exported CATL. I said “ The West exported its manufacturing base to the east a few decades ago.“ and it did . Your last step should be to stop getting arsey and misrepresenting posts that disputes your love of Chinese propaganda. |
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Post by sheepy on May 24, 2024 17:39:23 GMT
Get over yourself Baron the Chinese cleverly have taken the industrial side of the British empire are a lot better at it and has created a worldwide customer base, exactly how the British empire industrial base worked, it created a growing middle class as in China but also created a need for cheap labour and a rule by an iron fist. They have also created industrial wastelands around the world in the quest to be the motherland. They have also created a shipping it empire by road, rail, air and water also now have the world's largest navy.
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Post by Bentley on May 24, 2024 17:42:54 GMT
Indeed. Why use the uppity great unwashed in your own country to make things when you can make a lot more money by exporting your manufacturing base to a place full to the brim with cheap labour .
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 24, 2024 19:05:07 GMT
The West did not export CATL. It was founded by a Chinese man. Compare to the failure that was BritishVolt.
What I'm trying to get across to your high and mighty self is this country needs to buck its ideas up rather than run museums of past achievements. I was at Bristol Station the other day and looking through the leaflets of things to do. Over 80% were museums. This is how we earn our bread, boasting to our younger generations and tourists how great we once were, not how great we are in the now. The first step is to shut up about criticising the Chinese, who are actually doing a proper job.
You should learn to read . I never said the West exported CATL. I said “ The West exported its manufacturing base to the east a few decades ago.“ and it did . Your last step should be to stop getting arsey and misrepresenting posts that disputes your love of Chinese propaganda. I know what you said, but their technology has gone far beyond what the Westerners were commissioning them to make. It was a lot of low value junk to start with. I remember back in the 70s everyone thought Made in Hong Kong was a mark of the lowest of quality. I was a child then playing with cheap toys from the region. They caught up with the West in technology double fast, but the theory that it was because they copied it all is wrong. Sure they copied some of it, but they are a very intelligent race and figure the same stuff out themselves just by doing it and continual refinement. This is perfectly clear now, but a few years ago the argument it was all copied held some traction. You see they continue to whizz past us at the same speed of development. What might take the west five to ten years to develop, China can often do in three, sometimes even faster than that. The speed they build stuff is phenomenal.
Now what they are doing is exporting this know-how to the third world, and the third world copy their ideas and get rich and then they are eternally grateful to the Chinese and never cause them any trouble, hence no need for a huge military and horrible repression of the people. They get their bread and circuses. They have very good relations with the Africans so the Africans give them access to their raw materials. We Westerners could get cut out of the loop and then what will we do. |
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Post by Bentley on May 24, 2024 19:43:28 GMT
You should learn to read . I never said the West exported CATL. I said “ The West exported its manufacturing base to the east a few decades ago.“ and it did . Your last step should be to stop getting arsey and misrepresenting posts that disputes your love of Chinese propaganda. I know what you said, but their technology has gone far beyond what the Westerners were commissioning them to make. It was a lot of low value junk to start with. I remember back in the 70s everyone thought Made in Hong Kong was a mark of the lowest of quality. I was a child then playing with cheap toys from the region. They caught up with the West in technology double fast, but the theory that it was because they copied it all is wrong. Sure they copied some of it, but they are a very intelligent race and figure the same stuff out themselves just by doing it and continual refinement. This is perfectly clear now, but a few years ago the argument it was all copied held some traction. You see they continue to whizz past us at the same speed of development. What might take the west five to ten years to develop, China can often do in three, sometimes even faster than that. The speed they build stuff is phenomenal.
Now what they are doing is exporting this know-how to the third world, and the third world copy their ideas and get rich and then they are eternally grateful to the Chinese and never cause them any trouble, hence no need for a huge military and horrible repression of the people. They get their bread and circuses. They have very good relations with the Africans so the Africans give them access to their raw materials. We Westerners could get cut out of the loop and then what will we do. You’re barking up the wrong tree if you think that I believe the Chinese are less smarter than us . |
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Post by Hutchyns on May 24, 2024 20:11:55 GMT
I doubt it's to do with innate smartness, but rather that the Chinese have decided on what basis they've wished their society to progress over recent decades and put the educational, engineering and scientific resources to the forefront to enable their population to excel.
The West has chosen a different road, and consequently it's present and future is taking shape accordingly. The Chinese seem happy with their choice, and if the comments in this thread and others give an accurate reflection, we're still surprisingly content with our very different direction of travel.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 25, 2024 10:19:28 GMT
I doubt it's to do with innate smartness, but rather that the Chinese have decided on what basis they've wished their society to progress over recent decades and put the educational, engineering and scientific resources to the forefront to enable their population to excel. The West has chosen a different road, and consequently it's present and future is taking shape accordingly. The Chinese seem happy with their choice, and if the comments in this thread and others give an accurate reflection, we're still surprisingly content with our very different direction of travel. We are losing our technical skills. To do technical stuff you have to learn by doing. We teach it, but chances are the teachers never practised it and next will be the teachers who taught the teachers will have never been near a factory and so on. These changes occurred in our education system back in the 70s. The only chance we have now is to be friendly towards the Chinese and let them show us how it is done so we can learn how to set up our own manufacturing. We need to learn how to do robotics, because robots will be the new factory workers. Take a look around a British factory and rarely do you see a robot, and you certainly don't see a robot made in Britain. Our factories are often just final assembly operations, or they are are engineering firms with low-paid apprentices making specialist military parts which cost 50-100 times the cost of a consumer equivalent, meaning that whole thing can be hand made just as it was back a hundred years ago with a man at a lathe or milling machine.
I've spent a fair amount of time researching this and comparing factories in China and the UK to see why we are so shit, and it is this which stands out. The other thing that stands out is the attitude in China. Everyone is self-disciplined and really goes the extra mile to do a good job.I see it as we stand at as crossroads. We could follow the Americans and screw people as much as possible and threaten them with guns. We could go the Indian way and live in dire squalor and corruption, or we can go the Chinese way and be smart and win. There is also the African way or the Iranian way etc, but all these options are even worse.
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Post by Vinny on May 25, 2024 16:28:11 GMT
If you lived in a dictatorship, you'd get "disciplined" too, but living in fear is no life at all. Fuck the Chinese Communist dictatorship.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 26, 2024 11:35:02 GMT
If you lived in a dictatorship, you'd get "disciplined" too, but living in fear is no life at all. Fuck the Chinese Communist dictatorship. They don't live in any fear.
With education it starts early and they are given challenging material to work through. They don't play games in schools in the early years like our holiday camps do. They teach them core subjects and they are focused on STEM subjects. Even five year olds can speak OK English as well as Chinese. School is very competitive and this competition exists all the way to getting into a top university. The vibe is one of work hard, and study hard. It's a cultural thing since right back to ancient China they were very focused on education. They enjoy it though. They like the competition, and treat it as we do playing a sport. They celebrate achievement, and you get a lot of respect for it.
I really can't understand you if you reckon you are some sort of traditional conservative rather than a Labour socialist. You would be thinking along the same lines for this country. You would be into promoting excellence and setting good examples. All this goes on in China and I'd say they are pretty close to our traditional ways, but possibly more so.
I myself learnt electronics many years before everyone else tends to, so by the time I was 14 I was top of the class in maths and could do an hour's maths problems in about 5 minutes and get them all right. I was not one for working that hard and hardly ever did my school homework out of hours, but learning technically complicated stuff at an early age and personally pushing myself until I understood it made me well smart later on. So I know what the Chinese do works very well. I was just a very frustrated child that I had in front of me problems way above my learning so I wanted to suss it and would not give up. Not many have such a dogged determination, but those who do often go on to make great discoveries. The trouble for me was I was in the wrong country. Our system no longer valued it by this time.
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Post by Vinny on May 26, 2024 11:54:24 GMT
Go live there and learn the truth.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 26, 2024 12:55:04 GMT
Go live there and learn the truth. Listen to Morris Chang.
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Post by Vinny on May 26, 2024 13:13:07 GMT
Nah I'll listen to this guy rather than a regime stooge.
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Post by Bentley on May 26, 2024 13:20:04 GMT
If you lived in a dictatorship, you'd get "disciplined" too, but living in fear is no life at all. Fuck the Chinese Communist dictatorship. They don't live in any fear.
With education it starts early and they are given challenging material to work through. They don't play games in schools in the early years like our holiday camps do. They teach them core subjects and they are focused on STEM subjects. Even five year olds can speak OK English as well as Chinese. School is very competitive and this competition exists all the way to getting into a top university. The vibe is one of work hard, and study hard. It's a cultural thing since right back to ancient China they were very focused on education. They enjoy it though. They like the competition, and treat it as we do playing a sport. They celebrate achievement, and you get a lot of respect for it.
I really can't understand you if you reckon you are some sort of traditional conservative rather than a Labour socialist. You would be thinking along the same lines for this country. You would be into promoting excellence and setting good examples. All this goes on in China and I'd say they are pretty close to our traditional ways, but possibly more so.
I myself learnt electronics many years before everyone else tends to, so by the time I was 14 I was top of the class in maths and could do an hour's maths problems in about 5 minutes and get them all right. I was not one for working that hard and hardly ever did my school homework out of hours, but learning technically complicated stuff at an early age and personally pushing myself until I understood it made me well smart later on. So I know what the Chinese do works very well. I was just a very frustrated child that I had in front of me problems way above my learning so I wanted to suss it and would not give up. Not many have such a dogged determination, but those who do often go on to make great discoveries. The trouble for me was I was in the wrong country. Our system no longer valued it by this time.
The irony is that if you criticised the Chinese government/ culture/ mindset as much as you criticise the West , you would probably be lucky to get a job sweeping up or cleaning out toilets . China is a collectivist society with little value afforded to the individual. |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 26, 2024 14:22:34 GMT
Looks like I'm wading I to a firefight ...
Ok where do I start
Well perhaps that the teenage me was well acquainted with Mr Linsley-Hood's class A amplifier mainly because my father helped run an electronics club and several from the Royal Signals and Radar Establishment and Atomic Energy Authority were members.
I remember being shown the lack of distortion in the circuit compared to another, that would have been the mid 70's in my late teens.
In terms of circuit design there isn't a huge difference between the circuits in the IBM6400 I learned to patch and boot as a seven year old in 1964 and the Dell laptop and HP desktop I've got upstairs, it's just that the former had discrete transistors resistors capacitors etc etc on bakelite / resin circuit boards and tbe whole was tbe size of a small family car...
We did indeed lead the world in several areas but have not done so for decades.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 26, 2024 14:29:44 GMT
They don't live in any fear.
With education it starts early and they are given challenging material to work through. They don't play games in schools in the early years like our holiday camps do. They teach them core subjects and they are focused on STEM subjects. Even five year olds can speak OK English as well as Chinese. School is very competitive and this competition exists all the way to getting into a top university. The vibe is one of work hard, and study hard. It's a cultural thing since right back to ancient China they were very focused on education. They enjoy it though. They like the competition, and treat it as we do playing a sport. They celebrate achievement, and you get a lot of respect for it.
I really can't understand you if you reckon you are some sort of traditional conservative rather than a Labour socialist. You would be thinking along the same lines for this country. You would be into promoting excellence and setting good examples. All this goes on in China and I'd say they are pretty close to our traditional ways, but possibly more so.
I myself learnt electronics many years before everyone else tends to, so by the time I was 14 I was top of the class in maths and could do an hour's maths problems in about 5 minutes and get them all right. I was not one for working that hard and hardly ever did my school homework out of hours, but learning technically complicated stuff at an early age and personally pushing myself until I understood it made me well smart later on. So I know what the Chinese do works very well. I was just a very frustrated child that I had in front of me problems way above my learning so I wanted to suss it and would not give up. Not many have such a dogged determination, but those who do often go on to make great discoveries. The trouble for me was I was in the wrong country. Our system no longer valued it by this time.
The irony is that if you criticised the Chinese government/ culture/ mindset as much as you criticise the West , you would probably be lucky to get a job sweeping up or cleaning out toilets . China is a collectivist society with little value afforded to the individual. Well you have to consider in those cases was it the chicken or the egg. You do see people over in China criticising the government in similar way to what I do and I can think of one person in particular from Australia who was at one time roughly even-handed and his criticisms were almost fair but a bit one sided to a position of just totally anti the government. You have to ask was it him or was it the government or perhaps could it have been the people. The thing was he had to get out of Australia as he had dodgy people on his back so fled, and then China treated him pretty well and gave him work and a roof over his head and friendly exchanges, but then he wanted to get a visa to the US and changed his tone to suit his objectives. He is well know in China for all the wrong reasons now and and Chinese guys regularly take the piss and he is the butt of their jokes. I can't say he didn't deserve it. The thing was he was not stopped by the government for putting out his hate and lies in the later days. The people did the job for them. You see the vast majority hold the government in high esteem, so the best I can describe it is how we would feel is some yank was being foul-mouthed agaisnt our beloved queen. It would make us turn our noses up. He did report signs officials were a bit nosier than usual and had their eyes on him, but nothing more than that.
I agree you do need to fit in and you should not disrespect their system, but you can criticise OK as long as you are even-handed. Mention what you like and what you don't like is fine. They are just sensitive towards those who are biased and full of hate and disrespect. Japan is similar. It's an Eastern thing. Be polite and decent and you will not have a problem.Why go there anyway if you don't like them.
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