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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 4, 2024 9:22:44 GMT
It is illegal to keep anything in your home specifically for the purpose of using it to defend yourself against intruders. If a mugger approaches you in the street and says: "Give me your wallet or I'll punch you in the face!" you are not supposed to "Take the law into your own hands" by using preemptive violence ... you are supposed to hand over your wallet and report the incident to the police. Bollox. If you react violently to someone who is attempting to rob you in the street it is not preemptive action. It's self defence. Actually, it's both.
The principle of a self-defense pre-emptive strike is well established in law.
You don't have to wait to be shot/stabbed/assaulted before defending yourself (indeed, it could prove fatal to do so) as long as you have "An honest held belief" that you're about to be attacked.
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Post by Red Rackham on May 4, 2024 9:26:52 GMT
Bollox. If you react violently to someone who is attempting to rob you in the street it is not preemptive action. It's self defence. Actually, it's both.
The principle of a self-defense pre-emptive strike is well established in law.
You don't have to wait to be shot/stabbed/assaulted before defending yourself (indeed, it could prove fatal to do so) as long as you have "An honest held belief" that you're about to be attacked.
I'm not arguing about this. If some chav attempts to rob you and you batter him, you are acting in self defence. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 4, 2024 10:28:50 GMT
Yep.
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on May 4, 2024 14:34:52 GMT
I've been told by cops, on more than one occasion, that members of the public can only strike the first blow if the assailant is actively engaging in an attempted violent act. There was a time, in the 90s, when the police were supposed to ask a mugger, whose potential victim got the better of the confrontation and the mugger ended up injured, if they wanted to press charges.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 4, 2024 15:21:20 GMT
I've been told by cops, on more than one occasion, that members of the public can only strike the first blow if the assailant is actively engaging in an attempted violent act. There was a time, in the 90s, when the police were supposed to ask a mugger, whose potential victim got the better of the confrontation and the mugger ended up injured, if they wanted to press charges. Bollocks. |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 4, 2024 17:48:46 GMT
Tony Martin had a pump action shotgun without a licence. I hope this farmer has a shotgun or firearms certificate. If he has, he’ll lose it |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 4, 2024 18:11:19 GMT
I've been told by cops, on more than one occasion, that members of the public can only strike the first blow if the assailant is actively engaging in an attempted violent act. There was a time, in the 90s, when the police were supposed to ask a mugger, whose potential victim got the better of the confrontation and the mugger ended up injured, if they wanted to press charges. Having been forced on many occasions to render a criminal senseless … a few words of advice In 1979 a car thief chose, on seeing me rushing in his direction swearing like an angry viking, not to flee from the car he had broken into, but to stand his ground and take a swipe at me with the orybar he forced the door with. I broke many of the bones in his face with the cars fire extinguisher and beat him to a pulp on the ground, fearing he’d kill me if i did not cripple him. Three coppers came in very short order from the cop station 300 yards away in response to a 999 from my mate. The coppers first action was to ask some bystanders what had gone down. Their second was to ask if I had been hurt and their third was to drag the scum off in a police van. In 1981 i walked up to the front door of my HMO flat in Cardiff at the same time my neighbour got off the bus from work. As we walked up the path we saw the outer door had been forced. We entered to find a burglar trying to force an upstairs flat. We shouted. He charged us and struck first. We jointly beat him shitless. Again, the plod, summoned by my neighbour’s 999 call, first asked what was going on, then asked if WE were all right and insisted the ambulance guys worry about the gash the bastard made on MY arm and whether it would need stitching (it didn’t thank god) before bothering to cart the shitbag off And there were others. I’ve never shot anyone I have, in true blazing saddles style, hit the uppity bastard with a shovel. And a pickaxe handle. They came at me, and they regretted it. And no one’s ever arrested me on hearing what went down ….. |
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Post by Vinny on May 4, 2024 18:19:19 GMT
If there was a firearm or shotgun certificate, the certificate has already been suspended and the farmer's gun or guns confiscated.
But, if the farmer feared for his life, which given the number of burglars who were there, he'll have a good case for self defence, in which case, not murder.
And the certificate and guns returned.
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Post by johnofgwent on May 4, 2024 19:25:46 GMT
If there was a firearm or shotgun certificate, the certificate has already been suspended and the farmer's gun or guns confiscated. But, if the farmer feared for his life, which given the number of burglars who were there, he'll have a good case for self defence, in which case, not murder. And the certificate and guns returned. I understand the theory Has it ever happened though ? I suspect not |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 4, 2024 20:11:59 GMT
My uncle, who was a farmer in rural Wales for more than 50 years always had a shotgun and never ever had a licence for it. He could have had a licence but for whatever reason he didn't bother, in those days it was unimportant I suppose. As far as I'm aware he was never bothered by chavs attempting to steal his livestock or machines. But had he been, then I know licence or not he would have gone out into the night and given half a chance he would have shot them, or shot at them. He was very much from the school of thought that said: if you steal things that I have worked hard for, I will shoot you. And he would have.
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Post by Handyman on May 5, 2024 7:33:12 GMT
I've been told by cops, on more than one occasion, that members of the public can only strike the first blow if the assailant is actively engaging in an attempted violent act. There was a time, in the 90s, when the police were supposed to ask a mugger, whose potential victim got the better of the confrontation and the mugger ended up injured, if they wanted to press charges. Bollocks. Exactly if you are attacked you can defend yourself or if going to the aid of others full stop |
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Post by Orac on May 5, 2024 11:12:17 GMT
Exactly if you are attacked you can defend yourself or if going to the aid of others full stop It's possible, indeed quite easy, to break the law while defending yourself. The relevant law is written in vague language presumably to give the criminal assaulter a fair chance by making his victim have to second guess whether he is acting legally and / or whether he will be prosecuted for being victorious |
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Post by wapentake on May 5, 2024 12:16:06 GMT
As I said on another thread if they were burglars then tough you got all you deserved and the farmer should be let be.
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Post by Vinny on May 5, 2024 13:16:31 GMT
If there was a firearm or shotgun certificate, the certificate has already been suspended and the farmer's gun or guns confiscated. But, if the farmer feared for his life, which given the number of burglars who were there, he'll have a good case for self defence, in which case, not murder. And the certificate and guns returned. I understand the theory Has it ever happened though ? I suspect not I have heard of burglars being shot and being told it's an occupational hazard. |
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Post by jonksy on May 5, 2024 13:25:36 GMT
I understand the theory Has it ever happened though ? I suspect not I have heard of burglars being shot and being told it's an occupational hazard. Maybe we should use pest control shells on the burglars Vinny.....LOL |
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