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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 25, 2022 20:42:34 GMT
Yes he offered profuse apologies to Jason Lee both in the doco and in the book, for the unacceptable racism. But then he got up in arms about this Bo Selecta sketch, demanding and receiving profuse apologies in turn. This racism thing, a minefield itz.
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2022 11:56:30 GMT
Much like the real Olympics, the standards are very high. Only the finest, weapons-grade bull-shitters are going to stay on top of the pile for long.
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Post by jeg er on Nov 27, 2022 13:27:39 GMT
so, is this antisemitism......
When my Israeli friend receives his post, it is just addressed to The Occupier
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 27, 2022 14:03:08 GMT
so, is this antisemitism...... When my Israeli friend receives his post, it is just addressed to The Occupier I'd say, like Comrade Corbyn, it is more anti-Israeli. It's a good example though of what some might call ''Christmas cracker mutterings'' actually being a valuable contribution to the forum and high wit to boot.  |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 28, 2022 9:24:06 GMT
Finally got round to finishing the book. There's not really much to it, only 135pp in Kindle format but as an extended whinge it's hard going.
Baddiel's fundamental complaint is with progressives and their inability or refusal to consider antisemitism as 'proper' racism. He says 'this book is about progressives 16' and 'A sacred circle is drawn around those who the progressive modern left are prepared to go to battle for (and it doesn't include Jews) 19'.
There's remarkably little about modern-day AS from anyone other than proggies; Islamists and white supremacists barely get a mention. He tells us that AS incidents are at an historical high but doesn't tell us who the perps are. I think he gets his figures from the CST, but their reports don't shed any light on the matter either (I looked).
His catalogue of contemporary domestic AS hate figures is extremely thin, including only Ken Loach, Jenny Tonge, Gary Oldman (for defending Mel Gibson) and the bloke who bawled out 'Fuck the fucking Yids' at Stamford Bridge in 2008. All the other AS figures are either foreigners or dead. He does reproduce a table from an EU report of 2018 in which Jews in a number of countries are asked to state whether various aspects of AS are worryinglypresent in their country:
- AS on internet/social media (UK 84%; highest is France with 95%)
- Public hostility towards Jews (UK 52%, France 91%)
- AS in the media (UK 61%, Belgium 84%)
- AS in Politics (UK 84% - the highest)
- Vandalism (UK 45%, France 88%)
- Graffiti (UK 45%, Italy 66%)
- Desecration of cemetries etc (UK 45%, France 83%)
Much ado about nothing then, at least as far as the UK is concerned. The high score for AS being 'worryingly present' in politics I take to reflect Labour turmoil at the time. Baddiel himself concedes that concern about AS in politics in the UK 'comes mainly from the right 80'.
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Post by Toreador on Nov 28, 2022 10:06:01 GMT
Finally got round to finishing the book. There's not really much to it, only 135pp in Kindle format but as an extended whinge it's hard going. Baddiel's fundamental complaint is with progressives and their inability or refusal to consider antisemitism as 'proper' racism. He says 'this book is about progressives 16' and 'A sacred circle is drawn around those who the progressive modern left are prepared to go to battle for (and it doesn't include Jews) 19'. There's remarkably little about modern-day AS from anyone other than proggies; Islamists and white supremacists barely get a mention. He tells us that AS incidents are at an historical high but doesn't tell us who the perps are. I think he gets his figures from the CST, but their reports don't shed any light on the matter either (I looked). His catalogue of contemporary domestic AS hate figures is extremely thin, including only Ken Loach, Jenny Tonge, Gary Oldman (for defending Mel Gibson) and the bloke who bawled out 'Fuck the fucking Yids' at Stamford Bridge in 2008. All the other AS figures are either foreigners or dead. He does reproduce a table from an EU report of 2018 in which Jews in a number of countries are asked to state whether various aspects of AS are worryinglypresent in their country: - AS on internet/social media (UK 84%; highest is France with 95%) - Public hostility towards Jews (UK 52%, France 91%) - AS in the media (UK 61%, Belgium 84%) - AS in Politics (UK 84% - the highest) - Vandalism (UK 45%, France 88%) - Graffiti (UK 45%, Italy 66%) - Desecration of cemetries etc (UK 45%, France 83%) Much ado about nothing then, at least as far as the UK is concerned. The high score for AS being 'worryingly present' in politics I take to reflect Labour turmoil at the time. Baddiel himself concedes that concern about AS in politics in the UK 'comes mainly from the right 80'. France has always rated high on the AS scale and I wonder whether it's a historical reason. Jews were banned in England for centuries until that great Christian stalwart Oliver Cromwell allowed them to return but at the time it was the French Jews who were allowed because they aided and financed the flight of the Huguenots to the UK, which of course bolstered support for Cromwell's protestant cause. |
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Post by Steve on Nov 28, 2022 11:58:15 GMT
Finally got round to finishing the book. There's not really much to it, only 135pp in Kindle format but as an extended whinge it's hard going. Baddiel's fundamental complaint is with progressives and their inability or refusal to consider antisemitism as 'proper' racism. He says 'this book is about progressives 16' and 'A sacred circle is drawn around those who the progressive modern left are prepared to go to battle for (and it doesn't include Jews) 19'. There's remarkably little about modern-day AS from anyone other than proggies; Islamists and white supremacists barely get a mention. He tells us that AS incidents are at an historical high but doesn't tell us who the perps are. I think he gets his figures from the CST, but their reports don't shed any light on the matter either (I looked). His catalogue of contemporary domestic AS hate figures is extremely thin, including only Ken Loach, Jenny Tonge, Gary Oldman (for defending Mel Gibson) and the bloke who bawled out 'Fuck the fucking Yids' at Stamford Bridge in 2008. All the other AS figures are either foreigners or dead. He does reproduce a table from an EU report of 2018 in which Jews in a number of countries are asked to state whether various aspects of AS are worryinglypresent in their country: - AS on internet/social media (UK 84%; highest is France with 95%) - Public hostility towards Jews (UK 52%, France 91%) - AS in the media (UK 61%, Belgium 84%) - AS in Politics (UK 84% - the highest) - Vandalism (UK 45%, France 88%) - Graffiti (UK 45%, Italy 66%) - Desecration of cemetries etc (UK 45%, France 83%) Much ado about nothing then, at least as far as the UK is concerned. The high score for AS being 'worryingly present' in politics I take to reflect Labour turmoil at the time. Baddiel himself concedes that concern about AS in politics in the UK 'comes mainly from the right 80'. Thanks for that, not a book going on my 'Dear Santa' list then. Anti Semitism is wrong but I get sick of seeing a number of public figures pretend either that criticism of Israel is anti semitism or that it is somehow worse of more prevalent than other forms of inane bigotry. |
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Post by piglet on Nov 28, 2022 12:10:23 GMT
I recount this as interesting and is not a jibe. I knew a businessman who was part of a group who had a new concept on supply chains, and it could have made a lot of money. One business man went all in. If it went bust he would lose his mansion by a golf course near Ipswich. This bloke had already made and lost a lot of money, he regarded business as a casino.
Any way, one business man in the group, a jew, had a suggestion and it was rejected. He became very angry, and from that point on withdrew his money, and tried to destroy the business. The business man i knew stated that he would never go into business with a jew ever again. As a sop to political correctness, im sure there are businessmen and jewish who would not act like this.
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Post by jeg er on Nov 28, 2022 12:47:01 GMT
Finally got round to finishing the book. There's not really much to it, only 135pp in Kindle format but as an extended whinge it's hard going. Baddiel's fundamental complaint is with progressives and their inability or refusal to consider antisemitism as 'proper' racism. He says 'this book is about progressives 16' and 'A sacred circle is drawn around those who the progressive modern left are prepared to go to battle for (and it doesn't include Jews) 19'. There's remarkably little about modern-day AS from anyone other than proggies; Islamists and white supremacists barely get a mention. He tells us that AS incidents are at an historical high but doesn't tell us who the perps are. I think he gets his figures from the CST, but their reports don't shed any light on the matter either (I looked). His catalogue of contemporary domestic AS hate figures is extremely thin, including only Ken Loach, Jenny Tonge, Gary Oldman (for defending Mel Gibson) and the bloke who bawled out 'Fuck the fucking Yids' at Stamford Bridge in 2008. All the other AS figures are either foreigners or dead. He does reproduce a table from an EU report of 2018 in which Jews in a number of countries are asked to state whether various aspects of AS are worryinglypresent in their country: - AS on internet/social media (UK 84%; highest is France with 95%) - Public hostility towards Jews (UK 52%, France 91%) - AS in the media (UK 61%, Belgium 84%) - AS in Politics (UK 84% - the highest) - Vandalism (UK 45%, France 88%) - Graffiti (UK 45%, Italy 66%) - Desecration of cemetries etc (UK 45%, France 83%) Much ado about nothing then, at least as far as the UK is concerned. The high score for AS being 'worryingly present' in politics I take to reflect Labour turmoil at the time. Baddiel himself concedes that concern about AS in politics in the UK 'comes mainly from the right 80'. Thanks for that, not a book going on my 'Dear Santa' list then. Anti Semitism is wrong but I get sick of seeing a number of public figures pretend either that criticism of Israel is anti semitism or that it is somehow worse of more prevalent than other forms of inane bigotry. totally agree with this. applies to islamophobia and transphobia etc etc also. too many people throw these labels out just as a ruse to disagreeing with people's opinions. A recent classic example was the actress Gina Carano (from The Mandalorian) who got slated for so called antisemitism because she said the treatment (trumpian) rebublicans received was like how the jews were treated during the holocaust. Which was just stupid and idiotic, but just as stupid and idiotic to hound her over antisemitism, as she literally said nothing against Jews. Godwin's Law, yes, but antisemitism, defo not People just throw these labels around too easily, which undermines the credibility of them, which means people who truly suffer from things like antisemitism, transphobia, etc, will end up suffering, as people will just be fed up of hearing the words and will not take them seriously anymore |
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Post by Steve on Nov 28, 2022 13:07:01 GMT
. . . A recent classic example was the actress Gina Carano (from The Mandalorian) who got slated for so called antisemitism because she said the treatment (trumpian) rebublicans received was like how the jews were treated during the holocaust. Which was just stupid and idiotic, but just as stupid and idiotic to hound her over antisemitism, as she literally said nothing against Jews. Godwin's Law, yes, but antisemitism, defo not Gina Carano was a complete fool and that god awful offensive post of hers with that image was intended to offend many many people and not just Jews. Sad though it was to lose a good actress the producers had no real choice. Programmes rely on audiences so don't need anyone killing their audience figures. Not an AS issue. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 28, 2022 13:16:49 GMT
I forgot to list one other domestic contemporary AS hate figure or maybe its two. Baddiel complains about a Radio 4 event a few years ago in which Jeremy Irons took all day to recite almost the entire poetic works of TS Eliot. Now anyone who knows about Eliot will be aware he has long had form for AS, although such things comprise only a tiny fraction of his output. Baddiel identifies four lines in Gerontion and two in Burbank with a Baedeker as being 'problematic'. He muses whether, however great the writer, any other minority group would be compared to rats or envisaged as any other similar negative racist stereotype on Radio 4.
Perhaps not, but hardly life-threatening is it?
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 28, 2022 13:45:18 GMT
Shakespeare was a real anti-Semite though.
Ever read the Merchant of Venice?
My English teacher at high school admitted that it was anti-Semitic but justified it by saying that everyone hated Jews at the time. As valid a justification as ''slavery was alright because everybody had slaves back then''.
I expect he's dead now though.
Good riddance.
I never read another Shakespeare play after that, mostly because I found them dull as dishwater to read rather than because Shakespeare was a bigot.
As for those sonnets, get out of the closet Willy.
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Post by Steve on Nov 28, 2022 13:48:03 GMT
Shakespeare was a real anti-Semite though. Ever read the Merchant of Venice? My English teacher at high school admitted that it was but justified it by saying that everyone hated Jews at the time. As valid a justification as ''slavery was alright because everybody had slaves back then''. I expect he's dead now though. Good riddance. Yes Shakespeare is definitely dead now  |
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 28, 2022 13:54:33 GMT
Shakespeare was a real anti-Semite though. Ever read the Merchant of Venice? My English teacher at high school admitted that it was but justified it by saying that everyone hated Jews at the time. As valid a justification as ''slavery was alright because everybody had slaves back then''. I expect he's dead now though. Good riddance. Yes Shakespeare is definitely dead now If he ever even existed. There's precious little known about him and a lot of speculation that his plays were written by someone else. |
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Post by Steve on Nov 28, 2022 14:39:38 GMT
He certainly borrowed a lot of his plots but I suspect he did exist. The Anti Semitism Lite he shows was typical for centuries as did anti Catholics (and other religious groups) behaviours. If I go into [walks on thin ice mode] that's not exactly unsurprising considering the 'we are religious group X first, members of society Y second' behaviours some maybe many of those groups have shown. Very very wrong to vest anger on each and any of those groups though.
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