|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 22, 2022 18:32:51 GMT
The title of a book and now a C4 doco by David Baddiel. The central thesis - and ongoing complaint on Baddiel's part - is that during an age when minority sensitivities are uppermost in the public discourse, Jews are not considered as a 'proper minority' and, consequently, anti-Semitism is not treated with the seriousness it merits.
In the programme at least, Baddiel doesn't give a lot of for-instances to back up his case (caveat - I haven't finished it yet) but does seem to be especially put out that Jewish sensibilities (well his anyway) are particular bruised by the fact that what he views as progressive forces don't seem to consider anti-Semitism to be as serious a problem as discrimination against other 'recognised' minorities.
He mentions particularly the East End Mural of plutocrat bankers playing Monopoly on the backs of the oppressed, which got favourable comments from Jeremy Corbyn, apparently. And also Dawn Butler's keynote speech at the Party Conference which enumerated a long list of ethnic minorities and other oppressed groups who could expect to receive the support of the next Labour government, but she neglected to mention the Jews.
Strangely enough Baddiel seems to have little to say about the 'far right'.
I've downloaded the Kindle version of the book - a snip at $6.99 itz - so may have more to add after browsing that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 25, 2022 12:08:12 GMT
Well this one certainly hasn't caught fire, and I wonder why not?
Anyway, I've finally got round to viewing the second half of 'Jews Don't Count' and made a start on the book. I have to say that the second half is not much different to the first and, for some reason, seems to focus more on the United States than the UK. We have a procession of prominent Jewish personalities like David Schwimmer and Sarah Silverman lamenting on how awful anti-Semitism (hereafter AS) but seemingly unable to cite any actual instances that have affected them.
Back in the UK, Baddiel interviews the writer Howard Jacobson, the theatrical luvvie Stephen Fry and the comedienne Miriam Margoyles. Only Jacobson offered a concrete rationale for why AS is a problem. 'It makes Jews frightened,' he says 'that they will be kicked out again' as they have been so many times throughout history.
Baddiel visits a Jewish primary school where the pupils are practising a security drill in the event of an armed intrusion. But the only examples of such intrusions that Baddiel cites are all in the US, including one in which the perpetrator was a Muslim from Blackburn.
And again, there seems to be a great reluctance to identify the perpetrators of AS incidents in the UK. We're told they're at an all-time high but we're not told who is responsible. Baddiel alludes to 'progressives' who go on anti-Israel demos and some shadowy 'far right perps' but he never mentions Muslims. And neither does anyone else.
Elephants and sofas come to mind.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Nov 25, 2022 12:43:41 GMT
I would comment, but i fear have little expertise to offer beyond this -
Baddiel didn't institute our special minority oppression Olympics, he was born into it much like you and I. I often wonder what it would be like to be a member of one of these many competing special groups, constantly concerned that your group may be (say) slipping from silver to bronze or, perish the thought, moved off the podium entirely. I find this exercises my imagination because i have never been on a podium. I imagine, if you get used to such an honored position, having it end is a bit like a bucket of cold water. Perhaps we have some sympathy for the losers, they are the 'real victims in all this'
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 25, 2022 13:38:50 GMT
Yes that does seem about the size of it as far as Baddiel is concerned. Just because Jews as a group are rich, influential, powerful and, crucially, white they're not treated as a 'proper' ethnic minority. And he singles out 'progressives' for special criticism: "It is the project of this polemic [ie the book Ed.] to shine a light on the ways in which the progressive consensus has failed, at a time of deep intensification of concern about discrimination faced by minorities in general, to apply that concern to Jews, and the discrimination they suffer. Doing that involves calling that discrimination what I have already called it, and what it is: racism. It is absolutely at the heart of this book that antisemitism is racism." He doesn't mention (so far at least) that Jews are legally considered to be a 'distinct racial grouping' for the purposes of anti-racist legislation, and that there have been a number of high-profile cases in which individuals have been convicted for offences deemed to be antisemitic. |
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Nov 25, 2022 13:47:00 GMT
Will be very interested to see your review of the book please. Baddiel is often a very intelligent, nuanced and humorous observer of situations (well worth seeing live) but I have to say I thought that book title (and presumably letters through rock theme) was self indulgent. Seems to have got good reviews though.
|
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Nov 25, 2022 17:47:02 GMT
I am in the position of being a person of Jewish appearance who is not actually Jewish.
I’ve actually on more than one occasion suffered anti semitic abuse so have some perspective of what it’s like to be a Jew.
In my twenties a friend of mine married a German national and I spent some time with them on a few occasions,the older family and friends of the male variety often told me in conversation how they all served on the Russian front in WW2 which amazed me as they were all in one piece!
The younger generation my contemporaries were a different kettle of fish,open friendly with a different outlook.
In conversation with one of the older members I was aware he was a more than a little hostile and his conversation turned and he insisted I told him my religion which is and was nominally CofE it was only much later I realised I’d been talking to an unrepentant Nazi.
Minorities are quite often discriminated against,Jewish people certainly in the wider world but not Israel where they are the majority and can in some cases be the racists if you like.
|
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Nov 25, 2022 17:56:09 GMT
If Jews don't count it makes it all the more impressive that they are so good with money.
|
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Nov 25, 2022 17:58:25 GMT
If Jews don't count it makes it all the more impressive that they are so good with money. Very good  |
|
|
|
Post by jeg er on Nov 25, 2022 18:08:42 GMT
If Jews don't count it makes it all the more impressive that they are so good with money. you bloody anti semite, you  |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Nov 25, 2022 18:09:05 GMT
If Jews don't count it makes it all the more impressive that they are so good with money. Very good It's probably just the sort of anti-Semitism Dan is so disappointed not to find in the UK as well. |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Nov 25, 2022 18:09:40 GMT
If Jews don't count it makes it all the more impressive that they are so good with money. you bloody anti semite, you Beat me to it.  |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 25, 2022 18:17:37 GMT
It's probably just the sort of anti-Semitism Dan is so disappointed not to find in the UK as well. According to Baddiel there's plenty enough of it around if the antennae are finely tuned.
There's a little piece in the book about the celebrity diner the Ivy Cafe in St John's Wood. Baddiel was very put out to hear some journos referring to it as The Oy Vey Cafe on account of its location/clientele.
|
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Nov 25, 2022 18:37:51 GMT
It's probably just the sort of anti-Semitism Dan is so disappointed not to find in the UK as well. According to Baddiel there's plenty enough of it around if the antennae are finely tuned.
There's a little piece in the book about the celebrity diner the Ivy Cafe in St John's Wood. Baddiel was very put out to hear some journos referring to it as The Oy Vey Cafe on account of its location/clientele.
That seems a little humourless for a comedian. |
|
|
|
Post by colbops on Nov 25, 2022 19:03:48 GMT
If Jews don't count it makes it all the more impressive that they are so good with money. They are actually terrible with Money, that's why they have to squirrel away so much of it. |
|
|
|
Post by colbops on Nov 25, 2022 20:31:06 GMT
According to Baddiel there's plenty enough of it around if the antennae are finely tuned.
There's a little piece in the book about the celebrity diner the Ivy Cafe in St John's Wood. Baddiel was very put out to hear some journos referring to it as The Oy Vey Cafe on account of its location/clientele.
That seems a little humourless for a comedian. Just a tad, and well he's not shy when it comes to making fun of others ! You gotta be careful when adopting 'offense culture' . It might just come back to bite you in the arse! |
|
