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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 22, 2024 20:32:56 GMT
Reform are trying to take seats in marginal constituencies, those constituencies hang in the balance from a Tory/Labour win, if the win goes to Reform it boosts Labour.. so Labour basically can't lose, because it's Tories v Reform and not Tories v Labour. Which is exactly why the Tories should stand down: They are a busted flush, Labour will win but we need an opposition that actually opposes.
Reform can build their base but no good will come of a Lab/Con forever, based on an ever dwindling turnout.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 22, 2024 20:36:23 GMT
We wouldn't need tactical voting if we had a decent PR electoral system. Consider this: Progressives = Lab + LD Conservatives = Con + UKIP 2001 Progressives – 59% Conservatives – 33.1% 2005 Progressives – 57.2% Conservatives – 34.6% 2010 Progressives – 52% Conservatives – 36.1% 2015 Progressives – 38.3% Conservatives - 49.4% 2017 Progressives – 47.4% Conservatives – 42.3% 2019 Progressives – 43.7% Conservatives 43.6% Only in 2015, after the coalition which was disastrous for the LDs, have conservative parties actual won a majority of the vote, yet we have had the conservatives in charge for 14 years. Why do Con/Reform folk think they speak for the majority, when the numbers don't support that? History speaks for itself, the last Labour government Blair/Brown governed form 1997-2010 almost 13 years, the same period the Tories have ruled.
13 years which is now 3 terms of office for a political party has proven beyond proof that it doesn't work.
Brown/Blair left the country in a MESS ...... can't be arsed naming the Tory leaders for the last 13 years ... but get my drift? #
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Post by Cartertonian on Jun 22, 2024 20:51:44 GMT
Not really, no.
Given my professional bias, I cannot help but notice how the NHS was No 1 in the world for healthcare when Labour handed it over to the Conservatives and now it's a basket case.
However, my point still stands. Progressive parties are outstripping conservative parties with regularity, yet our electoral system fails to reflect that, allowing the right to delude themselves that somehow they speak for the mythical silent majority.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 22, 2024 21:34:24 GMT
We wouldn't need tactical voting if we had a decent PR electoral system. Consider this: Progressives = Lab + LD Conservatives = Con + UKIP 2001 Progressives – 59% Conservatives – 33.1% 2005 Progressives – 57.2% Conservatives – 34.6% 2010 Progressives – 52% Conservatives – 36.1% 2015 Progressives – 38.3% Conservatives - 49.4% 2017 Progressives – 47.4% Conservatives – 42.3% 2019 Progressives – 43.7% Conservatives 43.6% Only in 2015, after the coalition which was disastrous for the LDs, have conservative parties actual won a majority of the vote, yet we have had the conservatives in charge for 14 years. Why do Con/Reform folk think they speak for the majority, when the numbers don't support that? You can only compete for power under the system you have - we had a referendum on changing the system in 2011, over 2/3rds voted against change. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 22, 2024 21:35:50 GMT
Not really, no. Given my professional bias, I cannot help but notice how the NHS was No 1 in the world for healthcare when Labour handed it over to the Conservatives and now it's a basket case. Horseshit... and I speak as someone who (unfortunately) had to experience the NHS under New Labour.. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 22, 2024 21:47:55 GMT
History speaks for itself, the last Labour government Blair/Brown governed form 1997-2010 almost 13 years, the same period the Tories have ruled.
13 years which is now 3 terms of office for a political party has proven beyond proof that it doesn't work.
Brown/Blair left the country in a MESS ...... can't be arsed naming the Tory leaders for the last 13 years ... but get my drift? #
Not really, no. Although we'd had the global economic crisis, the economy was doing OK. The austerity of the Cameron / Osborne era was a disaster. Under May the country ground to a halt. Under Johnson (and Truss) our politics became a sham. I thought Sunak would be the best person to start addressing the issues, but he's turned out to be very weak. So my questions are, if you thought that the country was in a mess in 2010, how would you describe it now? What do you believe will be the legacy of the last 14 years? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 22:58:20 GMT
Not really, no. Given my professional bias, I cannot help but notice how the NHS was No 1 in the world for healthcare when Labour handed it over to the Conservatives and now it's a basket case. Horseshit... and I speak as someone who (unfortunately) had to experience the NHS under New Labour.. Personally, I would insist they find a real job so the rest of us can redirect our money to a better healthcare system. This way we may actually get what we pay for.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 23, 2024 7:01:58 GMT
Not really, no. Given my professional bias, I cannot help but notice how the NHS was No 1 in the world for healthcare when Labour handed it over to the Conservatives and now it's a basket case... Sorry but neither of those have ever been true. |
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Post by Cartertonian on Jun 23, 2024 7:24:30 GMT
Not really, no. Given my professional bias, I cannot help but notice how the NHS was No 1 in the world for healthcare when Labour handed it over to the Conservatives and now it's a basket case. Horseshit... and I speak as someone who (unfortunately) had to experience the NHS under New Labour.. Hmmm...   Go figure |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 23, 2024 7:28:18 GMT
Not really, no. Given my professional bias, I cannot help but notice how the NHS was No 1 in the world for healthcare when Labour handed it over to the Conservatives and now it's a basket case. However, my point still stands. Progressive parties are outstripping conservative parties with regularity, yet our electoral system fails to reflect that, allowing the right to delude themselves that somehow they speak for the mythical silent majority. Well, I have to admit it wasn't bad when Jim Callaghan handed it over to Maggie Thatcher, but Blair did fuck all to reverse her war on dentistry and every child in the country pays the price now On the day Thatcher took over, a prescription cost 20p and a pint of beer in a Bristol pub cost 54p How's that ratio today ?? |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 23, 2024 10:47:56 GMT
Horseshit... and I speak as someone who (unfortunately) had to experience the NHS under New Labour.. Hmmm... Yes indeed - a system that came 10th out of 11 when it came to actually treating the sick - a rather important criteria for a health service. |
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 23, 2024 11:09:23 GMT
Horseshit... and I speak as someone who (unfortunately) had to experience the NHS under New Labour.. Go figure I figured that graph out . Personally there has always been a wait to get treatment on the NHS . During Labour governments I don't bother and just go private . Conservative governments give you a chance so I go on the waiting list . The graph would seem to show many people think the same |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 23, 2024 12:11:50 GMT
Go figure I figured that graph out . Personally there has always been a wait to get treatment on the NHS . During Labour governments I don't bother and just go private . Conservative governments give you a chance so I go on the waiting list . The graph would seem to show many people think the same I agree. Back in the day Labour reduced waiting lists by not putting patients on the waiting list in the first place. In effect, putting patients on a waiting list for the waiting list. This might have appeared to shorten the lists but it didn't actually get the patients seen any quicker. In the end I gave up and went private. By contrast my recent, albeit relatively few, interactions with the NHS have all been handled well and efficiently. I hope that Labour don't fuck it up. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 23, 2024 12:12:12 GMT
Go figure I figured that graph out . Personally there has always been a wait to get treatment on the NHS . During Labour governments I don't bother and just go private . Conservative governments give you a chance so I go on the waiting list . The graph would seem to show many people think the same It’s more likely they died waiting |
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