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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2024 15:24:14 GMT
Nonsense, the whole purpose of education is to educate. Where and when you can that is. New Labour focused on very early learning stages in the belief that a good foundation was the best way to open the doors to later learning. New Labour...old Labour....Conservatives.....they're all just pissing in the woke education pot and have been for decades. I mean we've been listening to all sorts of education ministers and government functionaries and MPs and and and...all announcing all sorts of fantastic initiatives and new policies and fresh starts. And nothing happens. It's not about education.....I mean it should be but it's not....that all changed in the late 60s when it became bound up in political socialisation...the one size fits all educational model because politicians couldn't stomach grammar schools anymore. Now we have a fuck fest in the classrooms led by teachers that are so bound up in left wing political bullshit that they are incapable of educating. But hey...who cares. Thanks for your opinion, but I will stay with the realities. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2024 15:27:16 GMT
New Labour...old Labour....Conservatives.....they're all just pissing in the woke education pot and have been for decades. I mean we've been listening to all sorts of education ministers and government functionaries and MPs and and and...all announcing all sorts of fantastic initiatives and new policies and fresh starts. And nothing happens. It's not about education.....I mean it should be but it's not....that all changed in the late 60s when it became bound up in political socialisation...the one size fits all educational model because politicians couldn't stomach grammar schools anymore. Now we have a fuck fest in the classrooms led by teachers that are so bound up in left wing political bullshit that they are incapable of educating. But hey...who cares. With all the problems in the education system in this country (collapsing standards, truancy, indoctrination etc etc) it's hardly surprising the that the one bit that Labour want to scrap is the bit that works (private sector). Nope, it is your woke post that is pure bullshit. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2024 15:33:29 GMT
This is very true - there is nothing between them when it comes to education, they all believe in the same woke bullshit. With all the problems in the education system in this country (collapsing standards, truancy, indoctrination etc etc) it's hardly surprising the that the one bit that Labour want to scrap is the bit that works (private sector).yeah...the last bastion of what education used to be...God forbid it should be allowed to continue outside the clutches of the egalitarianists. When you and your ilk start posting reality, we might actually see educational systems improving instead of the repeated undermining of education by those who seem to think that so called academic 'excellence' is the answer to everything. When all it proves is that some are better at academia than are others. |
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Post by thescotsman on Apr 2, 2024 15:51:39 GMT
yeah...the last bastion of what education used to be...God forbid it should be allowed to continue outside the clutches of the egalitarianists. When you and your ilk start posting reality, we might actually see educational systems improving instead of the repeated undermining of education by those who seem to think that so called academic 'excellence' is the answer to everything. When all it proves is that some are better at academia than are others. errmmm....if I've got you right.....I think you've got yourself into a feedback loop.....you can't improve the "educational system" as you put it until you have people who are academically advanced. Those who are better at "academia" tend to be the ones better at critical thinking and generally in a better position to analyse issues and offer solutions....BUT..... it needs to be free from political dogma. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2024 16:03:28 GMT
When you and your ilk start posting reality, we might actually see educational systems improving instead of the repeated undermining of education by those who seem to think that so called academic 'excellence' is the answer to everything. When all it proves is that some are better at academia than are others. errmmm....if I've got you right.....I think you've got yourself into a feedback loop.....you can't improve the "educational system" as you put it until you have people who are academically advanced. Those who are better at "academia" tend to be the ones better at critical thinking and generally in a better position to analyse issues and offer solutions....BUT..... it needs to be free from political dogma. Putting academic excellence as the main aim of education is obviously ridiculous. The best teachers are well educated but what makes them the best is something no one can teach, it is their natural ability to communicate with their students. |
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Post by Bentley on Apr 2, 2024 16:15:42 GMT
errmmm....if I've got you right.....I think you've got yourself into a feedback loop.....you can't improve the "educational system" as you put it until you have people who are academically advanced. Those who are better at "academia" tend to be the ones better at critical thinking and generally in a better position to analyse issues and offer solutions....BUT..... it needs to be free from political dogma. The best teachers are well educated but what makes them the best is something no one can teach, it is their natural ability to communicate with their students. lol. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 2, 2024 16:29:32 GMT
In addition to the 11+ there was also a 13+ and 15+ which provided a pathway for pupils who failed the 11+ to transfer to a grammar school. The grammar school system represented one of the greatest ways in which social mobility was implemented in the post-war period, enabling working-class children to enter the university and higher education stream based purely on ability. As far as apprenticeships are concerned, when considering them I tend to think of the engineering craft apprenticeships which were the means by which less-academically endowed youths could train for worthwhile and well-paying jobs in industry and also public bodies like the railways and the NCB. Also the armed forces as well. What are called 'apprenticeships' today are a very pale imitation of such bygone opportunities which basically evaporated with de-industrialisation. A quick Google turns up apprenticeships for the likes of 16 year-old trainee hairdressers, nursery school practitioner, beauty therapist and travel agent. Fair point but then again these are the sort of jobs available these days to non academic school leavers. In the sixties and seventies one did not take an 'apprenticeship' at an office job or travel agent, one took the bloody job, and one was paid a pittance while one was learning it, and if one did not get a pay rise having done so, one put the experience on one's CV.... I rather suspect that 'apprenticeship' here means 'school leaver being trained up so exempt from the NMW laws' In a way I'm not surprised |
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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2024 16:39:33 GMT
Putting academic excellence as the main aim of education is obviously ridiculous. The best teachers are well educated but what makes them the best is something no one can teach, it is their natural ability to communicate with their students. lol. I really didn't expect you to understand the obvious. |
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Post by thescotsman on Apr 2, 2024 16:41:10 GMT
errmmm....if I've got you right.....I think you've got yourself into a feedback loop.....you can't improve the "educational system" as you put it until you have people who are academically advanced. Those who are better at "academia" tend to be the ones better at critical thinking and generally in a better position to analyse issues and offer solutions....BUT..... it needs to be free from political dogma. The best teachers are well educated but what makes them the best is something no one can teach, it is their natural ability to communicate with their students. why? Why not for those that want it...? Look, back in my day it used to be that good "O" Grades were the pathway to a good career then they got dumbed down and it was then Higher Grades or A levels....then it became a university degree until today when now even that doesn't mean much because the majority of kids get one so all they achieve is massive debt and no better chance at a good career....
You say the best teachers are well educated....well....that's not true is it because it's so hard to find good teachers because of what schools have turned into....and....the best teachers are in private schools because they are the last bastion of education establishments which provide a space in which students are given the ability to learn in an orderly and disciplined environment and in which teachers are given the ability and respect to teach.
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Post by Bentley on Apr 2, 2024 16:45:15 GMT
I really didn't expect you to understand the obvious. I didn’t expect you to post sense. I wasn’t disappointed. |
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Post by Bentley on Apr 2, 2024 16:55:13 GMT
In the 60s three was the 11 plus and 13+ exams that selected children for grammar / grammar tech schools .
These were academic based . They worked .
Secondary schools were more vocational based schools but a child could be selected at 13 for Grammar schools and / or take CSE exams . CSE A pass was the equivalent of a GCE C pass .
This gave the secondary school child the chance to go to sixth form college to study for A levels .
The claim that the grammar selection system was unfair is a lie . A lie constructed by the losers who dud nit or could not pass the 11+ or 13+ or achieve enough CSE A passes . Either that or from political indoctrination.
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Post by Orac on Apr 2, 2024 17:00:42 GMT
In addition to the 11+ there was also a 13+ and 15+ which provided a pathway for pupils who failed the 11+ to transfer to a grammar school. The grammar school system represented one of the greatest ways in which social mobility was implemented in the post-war period, enabling working-class children to enter the university and higher education stream based purely on ability. As far as apprenticeships are concerned, when considering them I tend to think of the engineering craft apprenticeships which were the means by which less-academically endowed youths could train for worthwhile and well-paying jobs in industry and also public bodies like the railways and the NCB. Also the armed forces as well. What are called 'apprenticeships' today are a very pale imitation of such bygone opportunities which basically evaporated with de-industrialisation. A quick Google turns up apprenticeships for the likes of 16 year-old trainee hairdressers, nursery school practitioner, beauty therapist and travel agent. Fair point but then again these are the sort of jobs available these days to non academic school leavers. In the sixties and seventies one did not take an 'apprenticeship' at an office job or travel agent, one took the bloody job, and one was paid a pittance while one was learning it, and if one did not get a pay rise having done so, one put the experience on one's CV.... I rather suspect that 'apprenticeship' here means 'school leaver being trained up so exempt from the NMW laws' In a way I'm not surprised That's another interesting change. In the old days, a newbie would be inducted into many simple jobs by a member of staff assigned to teach them the job. In many cases, the job is pretty simple and so after a day or so the new employee would start to do the work independently. This simple system has now in many cases been replaced by official 'training courses' managed by a consultancy. This change has created a gigantic (parasitic) training 'industry' in which people are taught just about anything but how to do the job. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2024 17:30:54 GMT
Putting academic excellence as the main aim of education is obviously ridiculous. The best teachers are well educated but what makes them the best is something no one can teach, it is their natural ability to communicate with their students. why? Why not for those that want it...? Look, back in my day it used to be that good "O" Grades were the pathway to a good career then they got dumbed down and it was then Higher Grades or A levels....then it became a university degree until today when now even that doesn't mean much because the majority of kids get one so all they achieve is massive debt and no better chance at a good career....
You say the best teachers are well educated....well....that's not true is it because it's so hard to find good teachers because of what schools have turned into....and....the best teachers are in private schools because they are the last bastion of education establishments which provide a space in which students are given the ability to learn in an orderly and disciplined environment and in which teachers are given the ability and respect to teach.
Why? because too many students would be left by the roadside. Why not for those that want it? Why not indeed, but that is not the same as forcing everyone to concentrate on academic excellence when they could be following any of many more beneficial avenues. I would expect the best teachers to be both well educated and talented, although there may be some exceptions. There is a large variation in the quality of state schools, some are better than others, some are very good. Unfortunately this country doesn't have the ability, quality or wealth to spread the cult of private education across the full spectrum of education. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2024 17:34:13 GMT
I really didn't expect you to understand the obvious. I didn’t expect you to post sense. I wasn’t disappointed. Back in the school yard I see, BYE. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 2, 2024 18:07:33 GMT
In the 60s three was the 11 plus and 13+ exams that selected children for grammar / grammar tech schools . These were academic based . They worked . Secondary schools were more vocational based schools but a child could be selected at 13 for Grammar schools and / or take CSE exams . CSE A pass was the equivalent of a GCE C pass . This gave the secondary school child the chance to go to sixth form college to study for A levels . The claim that the grammar selection system was unfair is a lie . A lie constructed by the losers who dud nit or could not pass the 11+ or 13+ or achieve enough CSE A passes . Either that or from political indoctrination. The 11+ system was both unfair and inadequate. which are the basic reason it was dumped. It is a silly lie to deny the obvious. I was at evening class in the 1980s, the Tutor was a teacher at a grammar school he said the failure rate at many Grammar schools was high. If the 11+ system was better than we have now why is there no serious demand for its return? Nothing stops the students from comprehensive schools progressing through the academic ranks. Is the fact that universities are over subscribed down the scrapping of the 11+ or is it just a coincidence? It seems that even those who went to grammar school and failed, still want to support that out dated system. |
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