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Post by Orac on Mar 13, 2024 20:59:00 GMT
Baron, also - consider that pasta is made of flour and flour comes from wheat. You can get various results by treating the same wheat differently to create flour. You can also grow the same wheat species using different techniques and get a varying result. Wheat itself varies from species to species. There are already about four dimensions of variability and we haven't even got to the point of actually making the bread or adding a single additive. Bread in the UK is very bad and bread in the US is even worse. You can get decent bread in some European countries pretty easily - France notably - and a lot of that is probably down to quality of base ingredients. Can you even get that flour in the UK?
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Post by Dubdrifter on Mar 14, 2024 8:11:09 GMT
By the way, in case you were wondering, saturated fat is fat where all the spaces for hydrogen atoms are filled, hence the saturated description. With unsaturated fats they are looking to fill the hydrogen slots so can bind with all manner of other molecules hanging around, especially with some heat. This is where you can end up with molecules that can be trouble. So you are now saying ‘unsaturated fats’ are ‘bad’ over the long stretch?? …. There seems to be a lot of confusion spread by scientists over the years … contradicting advice on saturated/unsaturated fats … … and when you hear it’s coming from a quango group like PHE(SAGE?)(see my link above) … - as we learnt from our Covid 19 pantomime period - these people are not health experts … but killers and murderers … I don’t trust them and their advice one bit! So do these spare hydrogen slots bind to toxic chemspray metals like Al and Ba? … and prevent them penetrating through cell walls and mitochondrial cells? Maybe some things we ingest might make it easier to flush micro-metals and toxins,possibly also micro-plastics out of our bodies? We know now 4 and 5G microwaves from masts dropped all over our communities could be resonating micro-metals we ingest … and might have been in some jabs ….generating the HEAT you mention in our bodies … that might be killing our mitochondria(powerhouse cells) … slowly destroying our health? [It’s what happens when the Deep State military decide to covertly, irresponsibly, indiscriminately spray extremely toxic chemicals into our food chains since WW2.]. 😖 It's partly economics imho. The use of unnatural oils ect extends shelf life. If you break food down to its constituent parts and recombine in various ways to produce various products, you can modularise and commodit-ise the production of food far more heavily. The trouble is nobody really understands human physiology, so the results are unpredictable in terms of health. It seems to me that we have evolved to take various (many) components together in specific ratios and when one component is missing or in the wrong ratio, it can have negative consequences. The general problem is heat used in processing can damage fragile organic molecules. Here's an example. In Morrisons you can get various type of pasta, all with the same ingredients. Over in a health food shop you can get the same 500g bags of pasta with the exact same ingredients, except these packets are twice the price. The question was why? Well on the packet of the expensive ones they say not heat treated and it also says made in Italy. It's just another illustration that you can generally trust the Italians to do it properly. There is definitely an improvement in taste and texture. My Italian woman from Hampstead explained that one to me and i got a little lecture about the crap food I eat. She's right as well. Over in Hampstead there are a lot of specialist food shops and they are very pricy, but seriously good quality. My trust in Italians got slightly dented when their Mafias started mixing all sorts of kitchen sink products into their drug trafficking … then they got a foothold into the lucrative high priced olive oil market … and suddenly ‘extra virgin’ was no longer pure and was mixed with all sorts of diluted crap. … but I get your point about heat destroying healthy proteins and unsaturated fats binding to good vitamin absorption etc. I understand some remote tribes and communities … Greek, Inuit etc … seem to have no/low heart disease … because they have a genetic adaptation to shed harmful cholesterols honed over thousands of years …. so some of us are going to need to be cloned with ESKIMO/Greek mountain DNA to lose the legacy of the McDonald’s fast food era??🤔😋 …. Have I just stumbled on a new health industry scam? … slim-cloning?🤫
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Post by jonksy on Mar 14, 2024 8:24:45 GMT
I also don't thinks TFAs are in McD's at least in the UK, US may be different. A big Mac puchased in the USA bares no resemblance to one purchased in the UK..
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Post by Dubdrifter on Mar 14, 2024 8:41:15 GMT
I mean it is true Morrison's sell a lot of unhealthy junk as well, but the shop I use has tens of thousands of stock items and they come from all over the place. If it comes from Italy or France it is generally top quality. ……….The other end of the quality spectrum would be corporate firms owned by Blackrock and Vanguard etc. This is where we are at with Mc Donalds. I mean my view is I'm all for fast food because the factory does all your cooking work for you by robots. Also such huge factories can employ PhD nutritionalists and they can do very good quality control. This is more a cowboy problem. Chances are Blackrock and Co have holdings in the pharmaceuticals as well. Like many British Companies that were started up and owned by UK families with a modicum of concern about the health of UK citizens … Morrisons/Cadbury’s etc etc are now increasingly owned by bullying American quangos. … so the fat and junk invasion continues under Tory rule. …. They clearly have sold their Souls … and don’t give a damn about the general health of the population here. … and nor does the Biden Administration. American/quango controllers are accountants … so no good at sourcing good European/small producer/excellent quality produce … just importing the worst junk food from across the Pond … that generates numbers $$€€€£££ It doesn’t help our hearts if Hellman’s mayo is super cheap(and we thought this was healthy! - 2 egg yolks 1 tbsp Dijon mustard 250ml sunflower oil 2 tsp white wine vinegar or lemon juice) … and it doesn’t help that EU racist Zionists controlling Brussels and Black Rock/Vanguard, have been destroying European farmers and their kitchen factories, destroying indigenous white economies with over-regulation and preservative injections for over 50 years.
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Post by Orac on Mar 14, 2024 8:47:06 GMT
By the way, in case you were wondering, saturated fat is fat where all the spaces for hydrogen atoms are filled, hence the saturated description. With unsaturated fats they are looking to fill the hydrogen slots so can bind with all manner of other molecules hanging around, especially with some heat. This is where you can end up with molecules that can be trouble. So you are now saying ‘unsaturated fats’ are ‘bad’ over the long stretch?? …. There seems to be a lot of confusion spread by scientists over the years … contradicting advice on saturated/unsaturated fats … … and when you hear it’s coming from a quango group like PHE(see my link above) … which had to change it’s name to SAGE halfway thru the Plandemic … after we discovered it’s links to scientists in the bio-weapons facility in Porton Down, Salisbury … and it’s propensity to deny us transparency over vaccine harm and gave us ineffective vaccines, bad PPE and catastrophic lockdown advice that mentally damaged many and caused suicides all over the Country … they also had an inability to recognise putting recovering Cov 19 patients in nursing homes would kill thousands of elderly people. DUH!🤬 - These people are not health experts … but killers and murderers … I don’t trust them and their advice one bit! So do spare hydrogen slots bind to toxic chemspray metals like Al and Ba? … and prevent them penetrating through cell walls and mitochondrial cells … making it easier to flush these metals and possibly also micro-plastics out of our bodies? …. 4 and 5G microwaves from masts dropped all over our communities could be resonating micro-metals we ingest … and might have been in some jabs ….generating the HEAT you mention in our bodies … that might be killing our cells … destroying our health. The general problem is heat used in processing can damage fragile organic molecules. Here's an example. In Morrisons you can get various type of pasta, all with the same ingredients. Over in a health food shop you can get the same 500g bags of pasta with the exact same ingredients, except these packets are twice the price. The question was why? Well on the packet of the expensive ones they say not heat treated and it also says made in Italy. It's just another illustration that you can generally trust the Italians to do it properly. There is definitely an improvement in taste and texture. My Italian woman from Hampstead explained that one to me and i got a little lecture about the crap food I eat. She's right as well. Over in Hampstead there are a lot of specialist food shops and they are very pricy, but seriously good quality. I understand some remote tribes and communities … Greek, Inuit etc … seem to have no/low heart disease … because they have a genetic adaptation to shed harmful cholesterols honed over thousands of years …. so some of us are going to need to be cloned with ESKIMO/Greek mountain DNA to lose the legacy of the McDonald’s fast food era??🤔😋 …. Have I just stumbled on a new health industry scam? … slim-cloning?🤫 This 'remote tribe' thing has been a solid observation for decades. 'Remote tribes' don't have these modern diseases in anything like the pandemic quantities we do and that's odd. 'Remote tribes' have a couple of advantages and among those advantages is that they eat a diet that their bodies were evolved to. In other words, they eat the same food their parents parents parents ate, going back centuries or millennia. What happened in, i believe it was, Samoa is very illustrative - they changed to a western diet and within one short generation they went from being perfectly fine to having one of the highest obesity rates on Earth.
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Post by johnofgwent on Mar 14, 2024 9:06:57 GMT
Thanks for all that healthy advice. …which appears to have been so different in 2017 … this from the BBC … highlighting how bad coconut oils and beef fats were back then! www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40300145Looks like we are being given the ‘run around’ by these ‘experts’ … a bit like the contradictory ‘evidence’ over Climate change. 🤔 *********************** Approaching 67 I guess it’s all come a little bit late to change habits now for some. … when you see the fittest healthiest people imaginable dropping dead on the road after a 30k stroll around the block … it makes one wonder if it’s all worth the sacrifices. … I guess the uber stress some might generate - worrying to the nth degree what is a ‘safe, healthy and an essential survival kit’ for life - could be enough to kill one in the end. - not the bad food … but reading too many contradictory MSM scare stories and hours listing alarming chemical ingredients and palpitation-inducing E-numbers. 😋🤪 By the way, in case you were wondering, saturated fat is fat where all the spaces for hydrogen atoms are filled, hence the saturated description. With unsaturated fats they are looking to fill the hydrogen slots so can bind with all manner of other molecules hanging around, especially with some heat. This is where you can end up with molecules that can be trouble. Back in the 1970s our prof of biochemistry pointed to several journal articles in the Biochemical Journal and Journal of Physiology that pointed to a few less than savoury ideas coming out of polyunsaturated fat freaks SATURATED fats as explained are all carbon-carbon single bond ling chain polymers such as the carbon 18 stearic acid. These are routinely chopped down by the Krebs citric acid cycle to power the phosphorylation of ADP to ATP and drive the electron transport chain UNSATURATED fats were deemed healthier by a rather flawed paper that equated high volumes of saturated fat in the diet with high volumes of cholesterol, failing to note that many of the test subjects were actually showing signs of a metabolic defect that increased the concentration of cholesterol and high density lipoprotein in the blood plasma, and crucially weakened cardiac cell walls. The test subjects for the study had been chosen for their propensity to suffer a potentially fatal disease, hardly the best way to proceed in a supposedly double blind test The more worrying fact however is that PolyUNSATURATED fats such as are found in supposedly healthier plant based spreads actually present a problem as their metabolism causes production of 'free radicals' small molecules with no ionic charge and an outer shell imbalance in one or more external atoms in their molecular structure. These are as damaging to DNA and protein structures as nuclear gamma rays and the only organ in the body equipped to destroy them is the liver. Pubmed NIH articles show evidence of organ damage in key organs including the brain as a direct result of dietary preferences towards unsaturated fats All the way back in 79 Prof Dodgon's professional opinion as a researcher in bacterial metabolism was that the eukaryotic cell was in as much danger from overexposure to unsaturated as the whole body was to exposure to excess saturated fat, but the damage was more insidious, and the only real answer was moderation
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 14, 2024 9:13:57 GMT
For your average Briton spaghetti still means Heinz Spaghetti Hoops. Tesco's sells them as "Delicious Heinz Spaghetti Hoops in a juicy tomato sauce have been bringing smiles to mealtimes for generations. Truly, it's an unspaghettible experience. Enjoy the great taste of our pasta on its own or on toast, it is the perfect meal for kids and grown-ups alike!"
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Post by johnofgwent on Mar 14, 2024 10:39:08 GMT
For your average Briton spaghetti still means Heinz Spaghetti Hoops. Tesco's sells them as "Delicious Heinz Spaghetti Hoops in a juicy tomato sauce have been bringing smiles to mealtimes for generations. Truly, it's an unspaghettible experience. Enjoy the great taste of our pasta on its own or on toast, it is the perfect meal for kids and grown-ups alike!"
I’m truly surprised if that reslly is the case Back when i was a kid, yes probably. There were few takeaways beyond fish and chip shops, and beans on toast was a quick and convenient one off when time pressed. ‘Fast’ food in wimpy in the 70’s was NOT ‘fast’ it was cooked from raw as best depicted by Eleanor Bron in the excellent Oete and Dud version of ‘Bedazzled’ I was truly shocked in 1984, when visiting London for the weekend on a trip arranged by the company Sports and Social Club, when i walked into the McDonalds near Piccadilly Circus and ordered a quarter pounder and chips and received my order on a tray fifteen seconds later from food cooked and kept warm. In the Wimpy and later Great British Burger this was unheard of My first pasta based dish ever eaten was in a restaurant in St Mary Street Cardiff in December 1981. Moira and i had taken our honeymoon on the adriatic coast. From Rimini to Ancona we saw not a single pizzeria. In St Mary St we found an Italian restaurant that served dishes very near to those served in the hotels and restaurants on the adriatic coast. All gone now, alas
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 14, 2024 15:03:02 GMT
So do these spare hydrogen slots bind to toxic chemspray metals like Al and Ba? … and prevent them penetrating through cell walls and mitochondrial cells? No you way off the mark.
This is what wiki says:
My bold.
This was what I was talking about before. Don't take Cancer Research as gospel. It's a UK organisation and part of the clown world.
A good graphical explanation re oils can be found here.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 14, 2024 15:14:50 GMT
Baron, also - consider that pasta is made of flour and flour comes from wheat. You can get various results by treating the same wheat differently to create flour. You can also grow the same wheat species using different techniques and get a varying result. Wheat itself varies from species to species. There are already about four dimensions of variability and we haven't even got to the point of actually making the bread or adding a single additive. Bread in the UK is very bad and bread in the US is even worse. You can get decent bread in some European countries pretty easily - France notably - and a lot of that is probably down to quality of base ingredients. Can you even get that flour in the UK? I find French and Italian bread/flour are very good. Aldi used to do these pizzas that came from a small business near Milan where the bases were baked in the sun as per the traditional method. Presumably it's a long-running family business which knows its pizzas. They were lovely and no more expensive either.
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Post by Orac on Mar 14, 2024 15:19:48 GMT
Baron, also - consider that pasta is made of flour and flour comes from wheat. You can get various results by treating the same wheat differently to create flour. You can also grow the same wheat species using different techniques and get a varying result. Wheat itself varies from species to species. There are already about four dimensions of variability and we haven't even got to the point of actually making the bread or adding a single additive. Bread in the UK is very bad and bread in the US is even worse. You can get decent bread in some European countries pretty easily - France notably - and a lot of that is probably down to quality of base ingredients. Can you even get that flour in the UK? I find French and Italian bread/flour are very good. Aldi used to do these pizzas that came from a small business near Milan where the bases were baked in the sun as per the traditional method. Presumably it's a long-running family business which knows its pizzas. They were lovely and no more expensive either. i would be very skeptical of that claim
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 14, 2024 15:52:33 GMT
I find French and Italian bread/flour are very good. Aldi used to do these pizzas that came from a small business near Milan where the bases were baked in the sun as per the traditional method. Presumably it's a long-running family business which knows its pizzas. They were lovely and no more expensive either. i would be very skeptical of that claim Aldi seem to do a lot of business with smaller companies. They have a whole different business model and are probably one of the better ones. They can't lie about the origin of the product and you can see for yourself if you ever visit Italy. The ingredients they have for their food is top quality. As I was saying, the bread was full of flavour, so notably better. Morrisons now have some genuine Italian pizza bases and pizzas in stock and again they are a cut above the usual. Both French and Italian would rather sell their own grandmother than sell under spec food. It's their national and family pride.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 14, 2024 16:05:42 GMT
By the way, in case you were wondering, saturated fat is fat where all the spaces for hydrogen atoms are filled, hence the saturated description. With unsaturated fats they are looking to fill the hydrogen slots so can bind with all manner of other molecules hanging around, especially with some heat. This is where you can end up with molecules that can be trouble. Back in the 1970s our prof of biochemistry pointed to several journal articles in the Biochemical Journal and Journal of Physiology that pointed to a few less than savoury ideas coming out of polyunsaturated fat freaks SATURATED fats as explained are all carbon-carbon single bond ling chain polymers such as the carbon 18 stearic acid. These are routinely chopped down by the Krebs citric acid cycle to power the phosphorylation of ADP to ATP and drive the electron transport chain UNSATURATED fats were deemed healthier by a rather flawed paper that equated high volumes of saturated fat in the diet with high volumes of cholesterol, failing to note that many of the test subjects were actually showing signs of a metabolic defect that increased the concentration of cholesterol and high density lipoprotein in the blood plasma, and crucially weakened cardiac cell walls. The test subjects for the study had been chosen for their propensity to suffer a potentially fatal disease, hardly the best way to proceed in a supposedly double blind test The more worrying fact however is that PolyUNSATURATED fats such as are found in supposedly healthier plant based spreads actually present a problem as their metabolism causes production of 'free radicals' small molecules with no ionic charge and an outer shell imbalance in one or more external atoms in their molecular structure. These are as damaging to DNA and protein structures as nuclear gamma rays and the only organ in the body equipped to destroy them is the liver. Pubmed NIH articles show evidence of organ damage in key organs including the brain as a direct result of dietary preferences towards unsaturated fats All the way back in 79 Prof Dodgon's professional opinion as a researcher in bacterial metabolism was that the eukaryotic cell was in as much danger from overexposure to unsaturated as the whole body was to exposure to excess saturated fat, but the damage was more insidious, and the only real answer was moderation Thanks for the detailed scientific explanation. I'm still trying to learn this biochemistry stuff.
So are these free radicals flipping bonds in the DNA?
Also another thought is, perhaps excessive alcohol damage to the liver would be a double effect here.
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Post by Orac on Mar 14, 2024 16:11:39 GMT
i would be very skeptical of that claim Aldi seem to do a lot of business with smaller companies. They have a whole different business model and are probably one of the better ones. They can't lie about the origin of the product and you can see for yourself if you ever visit Italy. The ingredients they have for their food is top quality. As I was saying, the bread was full of flavour, so notably better. Morrisons now have some genuine Italian pizza bases and pizzas in stock and again they are a cut above the usual. Both French and Italian would rather sell their own grandmother than sell under spec food. It's their national and family pride. I have no doubt this sort of thing happens in Italy and Aldi don't have to lie. Unless the Italians are enforcing on their side, nobody really knows. Major UK supermarkets are full of similar goods that are essentially faked - ie containers sporting the words 'extra virgin olive oil', which in reality are nothing of the sort.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 14, 2024 16:27:20 GMT
Aldi seem to do a lot of business with smaller companies. They have a whole different business model and are probably one of the better ones. They can't lie about the origin of the product and you can see for yourself if you ever visit Italy. The ingredients they have for their food is top quality. As I was saying, the bread was full of flavour, so notably better. Morrisons now have some genuine Italian pizza bases and pizzas in stock and again they are a cut above the usual. Both French and Italian would rather sell their own grandmother than sell under spec food. It's their national and family pride. I have no doubt this sort of thing happens in Italy and Aldi don't have to lie. Unless the Italians are enforcing on their side, nobody really knows. Major UK supermarkets are full of similar goods that are essentially faked - ie containers sporting the words 'extra virgin olive oil', which in reality are nothing of the sort. Ah but you simply can not lie about the country of origin as it only takes one person to make a complaint and then you are in deep trouble. As for the freshly frozen and other silly claims, yes this goes on all the time, but in my case it is irrelevant. You go to Milan and buy a pizza from a man in the piazza on a mobile pizza stand and it will be better than a UK restaurant pizza. Milan is a rich city, and full of Italians with exquisite taste. No way can you trade a second-rate pizza in that place! It would cause a riot.
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