The Third Reich was a cultural desert

Going back to your OP 'was the Third Reich a cultural desert', no of course it wasn't

Did the Nazi's try to change German Culture, of course they did. Did they succeed - for a time yes. Did it last, of course not.



One of the things that stand out about the Nazi's was how they used every lever they could to get as much of the German population behind them and working towards their goals as possible.



In many respects they attempted what you'd like to see happen with British culture.



They attempted to impose a culture on the German people. They did it by looking to the past and selling what they were trying to impose by presenting an idealised version of what German culture was in the past, and what had been stolen from the German people.



They gave it a racial connotation and built their culture around the 'Arian Race'. They tried to create a shared history for this 'race' they created - much of it invented. They attempted to impose this new culture by controlling the arts and the media, through their architecture, through existing institutions they adapted, and new institutions they created - The Hitler youth for example. They made it difficult for people who didn't embrace the culture they were trying to instil and incentivised / rewarded those who did.



Much of the effort the Nazi's put into the culture lever worked in the first instance, some of it even lasted all the way to their defeat. Most sadly it was the impressionable young that clung to it until the end, those who didn't know any different were the most indoctrinated by the imposed culture of the Nazis. That was apparent with the very young being armed and fighting to the bitter end while the older and wiser (particularly those at the top of the Nazi tree) started deserting the culture and wider principles of the regime, and ran like rats from the sinking ship.



Once the Nazi's time was over nearly everything they imposed culturally was washed away, demonstrating how culture imposed will never last in the way a culture that evolves does, and can continue to hold onto some aspects over the longer term, even as it continues to evolve.

colbops : I think we all know what the Nazis did, and why they did it. And most of us will have a good idea of what happened after the fall of the Third Reich under the auspices of the occupying powers. But that's not what this thread is about.

It's about whether or not they turned Germany into a cultural desert, which is one of the charges often laid at their door.

In my view, it's important to be painstakingly even-handed when considering historical questions and not to go off half-cocked with knee-jerk emotive responses often more intended to impress peer-group members than get to the truth of a matter.

I did note you disagreed with the proposition in the thread title, so good for you.

The Mind Zone has special protections and its contributors have special privileges. Instead of stamping out someone's thread (however nasty), it might be nice if the mods could just move it outside the Mind Zone area if they feel it is undeserving of the Mind Zone's special privileges.

Let me remind you of your OP and the thread title:

"The Third Reich was a cultural desert"
"The common wisdom is that as a result of expelling the Jews and suppressing artistic and cultural forms that were inimical to National Socialist ideology the Third Reich turned itself into a stagnant backwater in the cultural sense, and Germans were deprived of cultural enrichment until the Nazis were turned out and pluralism returned.



But is it true?"

Was the Third Reich a cultural desert - Of course not. Anyone who knows anything about Nazi Germany would understand that the Nazis imposed an idealised version of what they claimed the 'German Culture' once was on the German people - much of it invented.

I question what you call common wisdom has ever been considered common wisdom, since culture is somewhat subjective. Do you have any evidence to support this as a commonly held view or is it just your opinion? 

Germans under the Nazis were not deprived of cultural enrichment either. The Nazis took great pains to impose a rich cultural identity on the German people as yet another strand of control to help unite German people and get them to rally to the Nazi cause. They were comprehensive in their approach to this. They supported Art, Music, literature, Sport, Architecture, they adapted and introduced new structures as long as those things were done in a way that aligned with their narrative and cause. As I said in my previous post. Those that tended to buy into that imposed culture more completely were the youngest, leading to rather unfortunate consequences. 

That is the truth of the matter from an objective, dispassionate viewpoint. 

You can keep posting up examples of architecture, art, music etc during the Nazi years as much as you like but you are just providing examples which are both subjective and speak to what is a false premise that you've set up. 

As you've mentioned it, if anything German culture and identity was probably harmed, as much if not more, in the period between the fall of Nazi Germany and the fall of the Soviet Union owing to the fact that the country was split into two, with the two parts managed in very different ways. Only as Germany was unified were the German people once again united. At that point after a difficult period of adjustment they started to grow and explore what it meant to be German with ever increasing confidence. 

Who knows what German cultural norms would exist today had WW2 and the Nazis never have happened, who knows. Would it have been richer or better, impossible to answer as it it completely subjective. 

Does it really matter at this point. Probably not

Does that include that post which you made up on my behalf




















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Blasphemy!!!