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Post by sandypine on Mar 10, 2024 11:07:34 GMT
1 Very much depends on what you class as aggressive states and how they go about 'invading'. 2 Our military costs have soared and seem to be rising at a rapid rate. 3 Is that why the EU could be classed as aggressive in the first instance. 4 Empires do not create stability as a lasting thing. 5 The right thing is very conjectural, the right thing would not to have been involved in Ukraine some ten years ago but those with the power gleam in their eyes could not resist. What I feared Bentley the thread swerves onto a new track. Never mind. 1, Yes of course. 2, Not compared to what a war in Europe would cost if Putin thought his expansion was successful. 3, No 4, No idea what you mean here. 5, I disagree. Yes both sides think they are right. Friendship demands compromise on things you don't agree on. If that friendship is not important to you that's fine, but then don't moan that they wont help you as friends. Hardly a new track if I referred to exactly what you indicated 1 Some would argue that the EU, and possibly NATO as an organisation, are aggressively expansionist. There is little doubt both are expansionist. 2 A war in Europe takes belligerence on the part of some. We have to accept the fact that Russia in terms of Europe has been isolated and surrounded by those who both fear Russia and wish to control Russia with the aid of states outside Europe. 3 Expansionism is always aggressive, the argument is to what degree. 4 Creating a large unit (empire) does not bring lasting stability as there will always be feelings of injustice circulating. The EU is no different and has within it the same level and types of corruption that come with the course. 5 Of course you do but emerging from teh Ukraine with clean hands requires a degree of whitewashing as we see in Hunter Biden and the EU is no different by supporting 'freedom'. Of course many things require compromise and a degree of pragmatism, the problem is the EU are bound by the treaties and can offer derogations but that is not compromise that is postponement of that which one may not want. Compromise is the art of giving a little always as opposed to taking later. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 11:09:47 GMT
Indeed. And its one of only two topics ever discussed on here. I wish it were possible to discuss it logically, but the constant muddling between Illegal immigration which is not mass and government controlled immigration which is very much mass, make any progress on the subject impossible. Again the expectation for France to help with this even though we (Our press and even ministers) endlessly insult them and the EU. There's that word mass again. put together with uncontrolled implying the mass of immigration is illegal. In the UK Invited immigration accounts for 12,000,000 people since 2004. That's 17% In the UK Asylum granted accounts for 26,000 people since 2004. That's 0.04% I really wish we could separate the two so the newspapers would lose the power to blame France and the EU for our governments decisions. I don't see it happening. So was Poland in WW2. But you see what happens when a dictator finds conquest easy. So thin skinned. And you want these people to be friendly. Is this how you treat friends? Sadly, that's what I thought you'd say. But your narrative remains blinkered if you fail to look at both sides. Depends on your definition of mass . There is a significant amount of illegal immigrants to make it a very costly exercise in containing them but the main focus is on our inability to stop them and/ or get rid of them . We don’t endlessly insult France . This is nonsense . Im referring to mass immigration into Europe . In 1939 the UK was a world power . Today we are a small island on the back of a would be world power. The problem is on the far side of it. Why would we want to re join the EU that is so petty that it doesn’t want to help us because of Nigel Farage ? Sorry I assumed you knew as well as I the number of people on here who wantonly mix the two figures. How many times have I explained to Red that the number of illegal immigrants is not Millions. The rest of your is just repeating yourself on things I have already answered. And you have admitted you have no inclination to inform yourself. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 10, 2024 11:20:36 GMT
Depends on your definition of mass . There is a significant amount of illegal immigrants to make it a very costly exercise in containing them but the main focus is on our inability to stop them and/ or get rid of them . We don’t endlessly insult France . This is nonsense . Im referring to mass immigration into Europe . In 1939 the UK was a world power . Today we are a small island on the back of a would be world power. The problem is on the far side of it. Why would we want to re join the EU that is so petty that it doesn’t want to help us because of Nigel Farage ? Sorry I assumed you knew as well as I the number of people on here who wantonly mix the two figures. How many times have I explained to Red that the number of illegal immigrants is not Millions. The rest of your is just repeating yourself on things I have already answered. And you have admitted you have no inclination to inform yourself. You didn’t answer anything . You mistook my comment about mass immigration in Europe as illegal immigration into the UK . Posted a false comparison of 1939 Poland and 2024 Ukraine and claimed the EU is justified in not cooperating with the UK because Nigel Farage insulted them. That doesn’t indicated an informed opinion . |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 12:43:17 GMT
Sorry I assumed you knew as well as I the number of people on here who wantonly mix the two figures. How many times have I explained to Red that the number of illegal immigrants is not Millions. The rest of your is just repeating yourself on things I have already answered. And you have admitted you have no inclination to inform yourself. You didn’t answer anything . You mistook my comment about mass immigration in Europe as illegal immigration into the UK . Posted a false comparison of 1939 Poland and 2024 Ukraine and claimed the EU is justified in not cooperating with the UK because Nigel Farage insulted them. That doesn’t indicated an informed opinion . I gave you my answers from me. I have never claimed a monopoly on world opinion. My opinion is atleast more informed than yours considering you openly admitted not bothering to examine the other side of the argument. And not being interested in doing so. Blissful in your ignorance and just repeating your questions in hope of getting an answer that suits your narrative. But why address me. There are dozens on here that will clap and cheer the stuff you are saying not argue over millions or thousands. Talk to them they require no proofs or analysis. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 10, 2024 15:52:57 GMT
You didn’t answer anything . You mistook my comment about mass immigration in Europe as illegal immigration into the UK . Posted a false comparison of 1939 Poland and 2024 Ukraine and claimed the EU is justified in not cooperating with the UK because Nigel Farage insulted them. That doesn’t indicated an informed opinion . I gave you my answers from me. I have never claimed a monopoly on world opinion. My opinion is atleast more informed than yours considering you openly admitted not bothering to examine the other side of the argument. And not being interested in doing so. Blissful in your ignorance and just repeating your questions in hope of getting an answer that suits your narrative. But why address me. There are dozens on here that will clap and cheer the stuff you are saying not argue over millions or thousands. Talk to them they require no proofs or analysis. Your opinion isn’t any more informed because you have thought about the UK rejoining the EU . It merely means that you have an opinion about how you think the EU thinks about the UK joining the EU . Your problem is you think that your opinion is the informative and authoritative one. Any other opinion is just the result of misinformation or poor research. Your last few posts pretty much refute this . |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 19:28:52 GMT
I gave you my answers from me. I have never claimed a monopoly on world opinion. My opinion is atleast more informed than yours considering you openly admitted not bothering to examine the other side of the argument. And not being interested in doing so. Blissful in your ignorance and just repeating your questions in hope of getting an answer that suits your narrative. But why address me. There are dozens on here that will clap and cheer the stuff you are saying not argue over millions or thousands. Talk to them they require no proofs or analysis. Your opinion isn’t any more informed because you have thought about the UK rejoining the EU . It merely means that you have an opinion about how you think the EU thinks about the UK joining the EU . Your problem is you think that your opinion is the informative and authoritative one. Any other opinion is just the result of misinformation or poor research. Your last few posts pretty much refute this . Nope. I have examined both the reasons we left and the reasons to re-join. The attitudes towards the EU and the attitudes of the EU towards us. That is why I'm not surprised they don't bend over for us and you are. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 10, 2024 19:34:36 GMT
Your opinion isn’t any more informed because you have thought about the UK rejoining the EU . It merely means that you have an opinion about how you think the EU thinks about the UK joining the EU . Your problem is you think that your opinion is the informative and authoritative one. Any other opinion is just the result of misinformation or poor research. Your last few posts pretty much refute this . Nope. I have examined both the reasons we left and the reasons to re-join. The attitudes towards the EU and the attitudes of the EU towards us. That is why I'm not surprised they don't bend over for us and you are. And there you have it. You crow about how much you have studied the subject and immediately after that make a false claim that I want them to ‘ bend over ‘ for the UK when I was talking about cooperation. That just about sums up your ‘knowledge ‘and integrity. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 19:42:48 GMT
Nope. I have examined both the reasons we left and the reasons to re-join. The attitudes towards the EU and the attitudes of the EU towards us. That is why I'm not surprised they don't bend over for us and you are. And there you have it. You crow about how much you have studied the subject and immediately after that make a false claim that I want them to ‘ bend over ‘ for the UK when I was talking about cooperation. That just about sums up your ‘knowledge ‘and integrity. And I know I'm right when your only fall back is pedantry. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 10, 2024 19:52:27 GMT
And there you have it. You crow about how much you have studied the subject and immediately after that make a false claim that I want them to ‘ bend over ‘ for the UK when I was talking about cooperation. That just about sums up your ‘knowledge ‘and integrity. And I know I'm right when your only fall back is pedantry. Nope.You knew you was wrong when you falsely claimed I wanted the EU to ‘ bend over’ but knew all along that I said ‘ cooperate’. That’s why you said it . You was losing the argument and decided to resort to a ‘ straw man fallacy’. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 20:34:17 GMT
And I know I'm right when your only fall back is pedantry. Nope.You knew you was wrong when you falsely claimed I wanted the EU to ‘ bend over’ but knew all along that I said ‘ cooperate’. That’s why you said it . You was losing the argument and decided to resort to a ‘ straw man fallacy’. You kept asking why the EU refused to stop illegal migrants coming into the UK. You said you could see no reason why the EU would not cooperate in this even if there was nothing in it for them. In other words bend over backwards for the UK. I asked you to look at it from the EU point of view but you stated you were not interested in doing so and getting a balanced view. Because of this you have only half the information you should have. Typical of a narrow mind. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 10, 2024 20:54:05 GMT
Nope.You knew you was wrong when you falsely claimed I wanted the EU to ‘ bend over’ but knew all along that I said ‘ cooperate’. That’s why you said it . You was losing the argument and decided to resort to a ‘ straw man fallacy’. You kept asking why the EU refused to stop illegal migrants coming into the UK. You said you could see no reason why the EU would not cooperate in this even if there was nothing in it for them. In other words bend over backwards for the UK. I asked you to look at it from the EU point of view but you stated you were not interested in doing so and getting a balanced view. Because of this you have only half the information you should have. Typical of a narrow mind. Now you are constructing more false claims. Nowhere did I keep,asking why the EU refused to stop illegal immigrants coming into the EU . I asked “ Why wouldn’t the EU want to cooperate with the UK ?“.abd later “TBH I can’t see why a country of 60million people cannot have a positive relationship with the EU, still be independent and cooperate with negative issues on both sides .” You are blatantly misrepresenting what I said. Cooperating is not’ bending over’( which is capitulation)( I notice that you changed ‘ bend over ‘ to ‘ bend over backwards ‘) You are wandering into dishonesty here . Unfortunately you make another false claim You posted “ Have you ever looked up the UK re-joining the EU from the EU's perspective?“ My reply “I doubt that the UK will join the EU unless or until there is a dire need to do so . I’m not interested in EUs perspective but I’m sure the UK would be a great asset to the EU if it decided to apply to re join” You now changed that to “ In other words bend over backwards for the UK.
I asked you to look at it from the EU point of view but you stated you were not interested in doing so and getting a balanced view.” Mind zone or not ..that is blatant false representation and outright dishonesty. From ridiculous claims that the Eu is justified to not cooperate with the UK because Farage insulted them . False comparisons of Ukraine and Poland to deliberate strawmen fallacies and worse …and the joke if it all is you claimed …I…have a narrow mind . |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 22:28:09 GMT
I actually said.
Have you ever looked up the UK re-joining the EU from the EU's perspective?
Not because you want it to happen, but to better understand the current situation.
See two lines, not one.
You then said
“I doubt that the UK will join the EU unless or until there is a dire need to do so . I’m not interested in EUs perspective but I’m sure the UK would be a great asset to the EU if it decided to apply to re join”
You see the words "I’m not interested in EUs perspective" take on an entirely different meaning when you include my words "Not because you want it to happen, but to better understand the current situation."
Enough now. This is the same pointless boring shit this forum is made of.
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Post by Bentley on Mar 10, 2024 22:51:19 GMT
I actually said. Have you ever looked up the UK re-joining the EU from the EU's perspective? Not because you want it to happen, but to better understand the current situation. See two lines, not one. You then said “I doubt that the UK will join the EU unless or until there is a dire need to do so . I’m not interested in EUs perspective but I’m sure the UK would be a great asset to the EU if it decided to apply to re join” You see the words "I’m not interested in EUs perspective" take on an entirely different meaning when you include my words "Not because you want it to happen, but to better understand the current situation." Enough now. This is the same pointless boring shit this forum is made of. Yes enough of your misrepresentation defended by more misrepresentation. Pointless indeed. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 11, 2024 0:33:57 GMT
Nope.You knew you was wrong when you falsely claimed I wanted the EU to ‘ bend over’ but knew all along that I said ‘ cooperate’. That’s why you said it . You was losing the argument and decided to resort to a ‘ straw man fallacy’. You kept asking why the EU refused to stop illegal migrants coming into the UK. You said you could see no reason why the EU would not cooperate in this even if there was nothing in it for them. In other words bend over backwards for the UK. I asked you to look at it from the EU point of view but you stated you were not interested in doing so and getting a balanced view. Because of this you have only half the information you should have. Typical of a narrow mind. Narrow mind! Apologies for butting in and don't for a moment think I'm sticking up for Bentley, I doubt he needs my support. But honestly ZG, you need to wise up old son. |
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Post by wapentake on Mar 11, 2024 7:27:45 GMT
I actually said. Have you ever looked up the UK re-joining the EU from the EU's perspective? Not because you want it to happen, but to better understand the current situation. See two lines, not one. You then said “I doubt that the UK will join the EU unless or until there is a dire need to do so . I’m not interested in EUs perspective but I’m sure the UK would be a great asset to the EU if it decided to apply to re join” You see the words "I’m not interested in EUs perspective" take on an entirely different meaning when you include my words "Not because you want it to happen, but to better understand the current situation." Enough now. This is the same pointless boring shit this forum is made of. You mean that different opinions are pointless boring shit? Wow differing opinions are what make a forum like this and nobody is forced to reply to anyone you can just leave the topic. |
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