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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 16, 2022 15:23:29 GMT
There's more in France than in the UK. Stop making things up. I'm not making anything up. Most of the people who take the boat to the UK want to go to England. Duh! Why the fuck do you think they're on a dinghy to England, dozy. And the reason why they want to go by dinghy - and pay about £4,000 for the privilege - is because they can't get a visa to come here legally, either because they're criminals or because they've already been deported. That's why they chuck away their ID. And as the French point out they can very easily work in the black economy here, which is much harder in France. They also don't get put up in hotels, get 3 meals a day and £40 a week. It's not rocket science. I think you are confused about my point. Neither you nor I mentioned England? I was saying that your assumption that asylum seekers don't want to live in France was incorrect. France has more asylum seekers than the UK. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 16, 2022 15:25:11 GMT
So what can be done? We’ve had suggestions like mining the Channel, sinking the RIBs, rounding up those landing on the Kent coast and shipping them back to France, or flying them out to Rwanda. But, in all reality what actually can be done…? Do what Australia did with Vietnamese Boat People. Ship them off to some godforsaken hellhole, leave them there and put two fingers up to the lawyers protesting about it. I’ve said before ‘political asylum’ can only be claimed by those who have a well founded fear of persecution, imprisonment or death from the state, or its agents, for who they are, what they say, what they believe and what they do. And these days that last one seems ever more to include where they choose to stick their genitals. The fact is not one of them is going to be murdered for their political views, words, deeds, sexual orientation or whatever else they claim to be fleeing from IBY THE FRENCH STATE so they cannot in any way be viewed as asylum seekers on arrival in Britain from France. This is the fact no one in Corbyn’s “let them in, we should not have borders” camp can be forced to admit. We can’t dump them back in France because they won’t take them. We can’t dump them where we think they came from even if they have EU issued documentation SAYING that because THEY won’t take them. So our only option really is somewhere like Rwanda We could put them on stripped out cruise ships and ferry them there in those while their asylum claims are being rejected. But the fact is we currently give the loud mouthed and very well paid lawyers too much power to disrupt our ability to efficiently remove them. Do something about the lawyers first, then do what Australia did. Not all asylum seekers are claiming political asylum though? 🤷 |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 16, 2022 15:32:31 GMT
There's more in France than in the UK. Stop making things up. The only reason there are more in France is because all of Europe's young fit men are making their way to France to grab a dinghy to the UK, France is just their stop gap, they have no intentions of stopping in France, France is actually encouraging it. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 16, 2022 17:40:31 GMT
Not all asylum seekers are claiming political asylum though? 🤷 Ok. I take it you refer to those seeking sanctuary as refugees from conflict as per our treaty obligations to the UNHCR Those obligations were designed with the expectation that those given sanctuary should return home when the conflict is over. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 16, 2022 17:48:24 GMT
Not all asylum seekers are claiming political asylum though? 🤷 Ok. I take it you refer to those seeking sanctuary as refugees from conflict as per our treaty obligations to the UNHCR Those obligations were designed with the expectation that those given sanctuary should return home when the conflict is over. That depends on what the Home Office award. If it is Humanitarian Protection or Limited Leave to remain, then yes, access to the UK is temporary, to be reviewed, but can be extended. If they are granted their asylum, then they get refugee status, which is the same rights as you and me, with no review. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 16, 2022 17:50:42 GMT
Not all asylum seekers are claiming political asylum though? 🤷 Ok. I take it you refer to those seeking sanctuary as refugees from conflict as per our treaty obligations to the UNHCR Those obligations were designed with the expectation that those given sanctuary should return home when the conflict is over. Refugee is a status of someone who has been granted asylum. You can seek asylum based on various forms of persecution. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 16, 2022 18:02:58 GMT
Ok. I take it you refer to those seeking sanctuary as refugees from conflict as per our treaty obligations to the UNHCR Those obligations were designed with the expectation that those given sanctuary should return home when the conflict is over. Refugee is a status of someone who has been granted asylum. You can seek asylum based on various forms of persecution. Macron has a lot to answer for, these illegal migrants coming from France will have to prove they can't go back to France because they will suffer persecution from Macron and France, lol that will go down like a lead balloon. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 16, 2022 18:04:31 GMT
No, they don't.
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Post by Toreador on Nov 16, 2022 18:14:19 GMT
Ok. I take it you refer to those seeking sanctuary as refugees from conflict as per our treaty obligations to the UNHCR Those obligations were designed with the expectation that those given sanctuary should return home when the conflict is over. Refugee is a status of someone who has been granted asylum. You can seek asylum based on various forms of persecution. You can also use those forms of persecution as an excuse to claim asylum; the lawyers will make your case for you. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 16, 2022 18:26:00 GMT
Yes, it can be any type of persecution.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 16, 2022 18:27:03 GMT
So on what grounds are these illegal migrants going to claim 'asylum' when they have come over from France in a dinghy, that is where they have come from? |
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Post by Toreador on Nov 16, 2022 18:29:36 GMT
Yes, it can be any type of persecution. I think you missed my point that was said with a hint of sarcasm....or maybe you didn't. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 16, 2022 18:49:39 GMT
So on what grounds are these illegal migrants going to claim 'asylum' when they have come over from France in a dinghy, that is where they have come from? Only if they have unduly delayed their journey. Haven't we already had this conversation, or was that someone else? |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 16, 2022 18:58:53 GMT
So on what grounds are these illegal migrants going to claim 'asylum' when they have come over from France in a dinghy, that is where they have come from? Only if they have unduly delayed their journey. Haven't we already had this conversation, or was that someone else? Wasn't with me no, I think they just move the goal posts, I don't think there is a clear set of rules, it's hazy, and it needs to be clearly clarified. |
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Post by colbops on Nov 16, 2022 19:13:36 GMT
I suggest lodging asylum seekers on any uninhabited British owned island wherever in the world it may, in a POW camp similar to those used during the war. Tents and equipment to build the huts they will live in and food parcels provided while their asylum applications are heard. Anyone still waiting for their asylum applications to be settled after 12 months will have the automatic right to be returned to the last safe country they left.  Yeah, maybe even set up a plantation or two on the island(s) to give them some meaningful work that will make them feel useful. Probably a good idea to extend the asylum review process to about 50 years to make sure that each claim is looked into thoroughly and we don't accidentally deny anyone's application unfairly. Its probably safer if the right to be returned only kicks in after 20 years, and only if the nation they've asked to be returned to agrees to take them in advance. |
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