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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 4, 2024 15:58:49 GMT
I mean where the vast majority, lets say 90%+, just lose it completely. I've read a few books in my time, but never come across it in academic literature or anything like that, but have come across a similar thing in the bible where it is mentioned that god can so choose to condemn an entire nation. It's as if god thinks, this country is beyond hope, there is so much evil in it that I'll flood it out or attack it with locusts or what have you. Anyway, that would be the spiritual interpretation, but now suppose we look at the scientific case.
Our society is a network of people who communicate with one another. In physics we might have say a regular crystalline atomic structure where the molecules of the neighbours interact in primitive ways by force. It turns out that even though the molecular interaction between one molecule and one other is simple to understand in terms of forces and so on, if you sit them in a crystalline structure you get all manner of complicated patterns. For example you can get a knock on effect where one neighbour wobbles the next and then the next, and so you have a travelling wave propagating through the structure. The point in mentioning this is even with a very simple model like this where the interaction is easy to understand between one and the next, the macroscopic behaviour of an ensemble of basic units is far harder to understand and to predict. So what we end up with by looking at one molecule in a lattice is behaviour far stranger than if we observed it in isolation.
One factor we can bring into this model is the level of coupling between nearest neighbours. With zero coupling we get behaviour which is the same as if there were just one of them. As we increase coupling the strange behaviours will start to manifest. In physics we often use approximate models that only take into account nearest neighbour interaction. This is bad enough in itself to understand, but suppose we had every individual capable of interacting with any other. A model that just so happens to be of this kind is the neurons in your brain. They can interact on a local level, but also interact with long-range connections. This is one reason why the understanding of the brain on a mathematical level is a daunting task. Now lets look at what has happened to our social model and how our society has changed over the years. These strong long-range interactions are the social media, and the level of coupling has been vastly increased by digital technology. This was always sold as a good thing, but from the above, I hope it is clear that such a statement is virtually impossible to prove.
Now I've just thrown up this mathematical model to illustrate what might be going on in mass psychology in this country. The psychologists and psychiatrists might throw a fit and say, oh no, that's total bollox, but maybe you are making some assumptions the maths says are suspect. Maybe the religious people of the past managed to infer the codes on how to navigate around potential mass self-destruction. Maybe there are rules to the game and god is some kind of mathematician.
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Post by Orac on Feb 4, 2024 16:07:37 GMT
Using the intelligence agencies and social media to build alternative universes is all fun and games until civisation collapses around your ears.
Every person's view of the world is mediated by every social / communication interaction they have with those around them. It is quite possible for a society to go mental.
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 4, 2024 16:24:08 GMT
It's not a new concept.
"Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad. We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting..."
We know how it goes on from there.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 4, 2024 18:04:03 GMT
After almost everyone willingly going along with the Covid restrictions and now the Net Zero insanity I'd say that madness has already taken over.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 4, 2024 21:52:22 GMT
After almost everyone willingly going along with the Covid restrictions and now the Net Zero insanity I'd say that madness has already taken over. I would argue those two broadly fit into the realm of rationality, albeit there were certainly many insane acts connected to them. I mean you could put forward a a reasoned scientific case why you suppose global warming is a problem, and you can also do that with covid. If I were looking at the sort of examples which really nails it, I guess I would have to mention the sexual confusion issue. I have to confess, despite being pretty good at predicting a fair bit of madness, I really never expected that one. You can kind of see why a government might say shut down British industry or some other damaging act, but to get the sexes wrong is just bewildering to me. It makes me think, how far can the madness go and is there any limit.
The other thing which makes me think it is widespread is just how many different things are failing right now. It cuts across nearly every profession and the lark with the post office IT system in my mind is very typical. First the fuckwits could no longer program a simple computer system, and secondly the management were utterly out to lunch. I guess it goes on in many firms where all we ever see reported is closure or hundreds of job loses. It goes on in most councils and it goes on in the legal profession, the government, academia, nearly every politicians has lost the plot, as have the media. It's easier to ask who is still sane. Name one sane profession.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 4, 2024 22:06:20 GMT
I think the sexual confusion issue is just the natural progression of teenage angst. We have had the anorexia and bulimia thing and now we are on to the sexuality thing - it's just magnified in the age of Tik Tok and Instagram.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 4, 2024 22:27:37 GMT
I think the sexual confusion issue is just the natural progression of teenage angst. We have had the anorexia and bulimia thing and now we are on to the sexuality thing - it's just magnified in the age of Tik Tok and Instagram. Ah but however real it might be, what is utterly irrational is to treat a psychiatric condition as some sort of status like they do. It's like saying to a mad person who believed fairies lived at the bottom of the garden that you have some scientific evidence for it and take their word very seriously. We have a problem where we no longer have people at the top of the tree who are sane and rational. It's like if the top court in the land is corrupt then you have had it, or if the top psychiatrist is mad or the top academic institution, you lose you point of reference. It's like your compass has stopped working and you have lost your position. You will wander around aimlessly. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 5, 2024 7:08:05 GMT
After almost everyone willingly going along with the Covid restrictions and now the Net Zero insanity I'd say that madness has already taken over. I would argue those two broadly fit into the realm of rationality, albeit there were certainly many insane acts connected to them. I mean you could put forward a a reasoned scientific case why you suppose global warming is a problem, and you can also do that with covid. If I were looking at the sort of examples which really nails it, I guess I would have to mention the sexual confusion issue. I have to confess, despite being pretty good at predicting a fair bit of madness, I really never expected that one. You can kind of see why a government might say shut down British industry or some other damaging act, but to get the sexes wrong is just bewildering to me. It makes me think, how far can the madness go and is there any limit.
The other thing which makes me think it is widespread is just how many different things are failing right now. It cuts across nearly every profession and the lark with the post office IT system in my mind is very typical. First the fuckwits could no longer program a simple computer system, and secondly the management were utterly out to lunch. I guess it goes on in many firms where all we ever see reported is closure or hundreds of job loses. It goes on in most councils and it goes on in the legal profession, the government, academia, nearly every politicians has lost the plot, as have the media. It's easier to ask who is still sane. Name one sane profession.
If you think that Net Zero and the Covid restrictions are rational then you are deluded. And the programing of a computer system that can reliably debit an account at the end of some complex network and dispense money at the other end is NOT simple. The failure here was that anyone could try to claim that the system was not flawed when they must have known that it was. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 5, 2024 7:28:52 GMT
An interesting comparison between the population and a rigid chemical crystalline lattice
A hundred and fifty years ago only one in twenty of the population had any say in politics. No woman had, and the requirement that a voter be a landowner of land if such value that it would command a rental income of at least fifty shillings a year from its agricultural tenants ensured slightly less than one in ten men had any polutical influence.
The remaining ninety five per cent of the country came to the notice of the state once every ten years in tbe census and that was that.
Far from a crystalline lattice the uk was a liquid soup heavily laced with brownian motion, and a pretty pungent one too
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 5, 2024 7:43:49 GMT
After almost everyone willingly going along with the Covid restrictions and now the Net Zero insanity I'd say that madness has already taken over. I would argue those two broadly fit into the realm of rationality, albeit there were certainly many insane acts connected to them. I mean you could put forward a a reasoned scientific case why you suppose global warming is a problem, and you can also do that with covid. If I were looking at the sort of examples which really nails it, I guess I would have to mention the sexual confusion issue. I have to confess, despite being pretty good at predicting a fair bit of madness, I really never expected that one. You can kind of see why a government might say shut down British industry or some other damaging act, but to get the sexes wrong is just bewildering to me. It makes me think, how far can the madness go and is there any limit.
The other thing which makes me think it is widespread is just how many different things are failing right now. It cuts across nearly every profession and the lark with the post office IT system in my mind is very typical. First the fuckwits could no longer program a simple computer system, and secondly the management were utterly out to lunch. I guess it goes on in many firms where all we ever see reported is closure or hundreds of job loses. It goes on in most councils and it goes on in the legal profession, the government, academia, nearly every politicians has lost the plot, as have the media. It's easier to ask who is still sane. Name one sane profession.
As far as any IT system issues are concerned, blame blair. He more than any handed development to monolithic software houses while denying the buyers the means to hire independent testers. |
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Post by Orac on Feb 5, 2024 8:43:29 GMT
After almost everyone willingly going along with the Covid restrictions and now the Net Zero insanity I'd say that madness has already taken over. It suggests to me that a lot of people are vulnerable - they don't have the internal resources / self belief to say what they really think and explain why. Most people in the uk work 'cubicle jobs' with obtuse reporting structures and targets. Over the last twenty years these jobs, their demands and the resulting social exchange connected with the work has become increasing detached from reality. This sort of thing beats the confidence out of people - makes them ignore their own judgment. The 'follow the science' meme is a good example of this - along with 'you have to be a gender studies specialist to tell whether this man in a wig is a man'.Undermining the basic common sense at the base of society means that only those with suitable authority can say anything at all Hypnotism by making people un-confident |
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Post by Orac on Feb 5, 2024 8:49:58 GMT
An interesting comparison between the population and a rigid chemical crystalline lattice A hundred and fifty years ago only one in twenty of the population had any say in politics. No woman had, and the requirement that a voter be a landowner of land if such value that it would command a rental income of at least fifty shillings a year from its agricultural tenants ensured slightly less than one in ten men had any polutical influence. The remaining ninety five per cent of the country came to the notice of the state once every ten years in tbe census and that was that. Far from a crystalline lattice the uk was a liquid soup heavily laced with brownian motion, and a pretty pungent one too It was intellectual division of labour The potato supplier had authority over how this job happened. There was no chance at all a man from the ministry was going to make him wear high-heels or force him to spend hours explaining why he wouldn't. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 5, 2024 12:59:46 GMT
I would argue those two broadly fit into the realm of rationality, albeit there were certainly many insane acts connected to them. I mean you could put forward a a reasoned scientific case why you suppose global warming is a problem, and you can also do that with covid. If I were looking at the sort of examples which really nails it, I guess I would have to mention the sexual confusion issue. I have to confess, despite being pretty good at predicting a fair bit of madness, I really never expected that one. You can kind of see why a government might say shut down British industry or some other damaging act, but to get the sexes wrong is just bewildering to me. It makes me think, how far can the madness go and is there any limit.
The other thing which makes me think it is widespread is just how many different things are failing right now. It cuts across nearly every profession and the lark with the post office IT system in my mind is very typical. First the fuckwits could no longer program a simple computer system, and secondly the management were utterly out to lunch. I guess it goes on in many firms where all we ever see reported is closure or hundreds of job loses. It goes on in most councils and it goes on in the legal profession, the government, academia, nearly every politicians has lost the plot, as have the media. It's easier to ask who is still sane. Name one sane profession.
If you think that Net Zero and the Covid restrictions are rational then you are deluded. And the programing of a computer system that can reliably debit an account at the end of some complex network and dispense money at the other end is NOT simple. The failure here was that anyone could try to claim that the system was not flawed when they must have known that it was. Computer networks were already sussed by 1974 with TCP and RSA came shortly after. You can have an unreliable network and yet still never get the accounts wrong via handshaking. Sometimes it might not work if the network is overloaded, but should never only complete one side of the transaction. So lets get this crystal clear. That system was easy to implement and much of the tech was off the shelf by the time they built it. In fact the system's technology was over 20 years out of date by the release of it. I've seen a teardown of the terminal. It did not even have a hard drive in it. These terminals were costing some £100k each. You can afford a hard drive with that, but instead they relied on RAM and a battery backup. They were total fucking cowboys and ripping us off bigtime. No one had the brains to see what was going on from the government side. Yes it was a piece if piss to get right. If you want to know what hard is, then try programming your own modern operating system. |
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Post by piglet on Feb 5, 2024 13:35:12 GMT
To be succint, the answer to the question is yes, Baron, you will do the reader a favour by not going round the wrekin, im sure you lose a lot of reads because reading you is hard work, you can sum it up in generalisations, it takes time to read long posts, not all of us have the time.
You are now going to go off on one.
No one has mentioned religion, Sodom and Gommorah, god, the Universe, Uncle Bob, Jed, whatever you want to call it, would not have destroyed such if he could find one honest man, and didnt. He destroyed it, saving his chosen person who happened to be there.
Its a good observation that society is quiet mad, that we are where we are because all is rotten, and if it isnt fixable then start again from nothing. Nature, god pulls the plug on dead ends.
Are we a dead end, maybe maybe not. Can we change ourselves,? if we cant its goodnight Irene. My opinion is no, how can we floridly be like this, encompassing millions of people, governments, and survive that? Not going to happen.
A theory of why, is that we suffer from to much wealth, that survival is guaranteed and we start to eat ourselves with the teeth we had for survival, we need to strive, not sit at home all day long, watching tv and getting paid to do so.
Jed, or god, saves his chosen people. Is that you?, or me?, i hope so.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 5, 2024 13:42:32 GMT
I would argue those two broadly fit into the realm of rationality, albeit there were certainly many insane acts connected to them. I mean you could put forward a a reasoned scientific case why you suppose global warming is a problem, and you can also do that with covid. If I were looking at the sort of examples which really nails it, I guess I would have to mention the sexual confusion issue. I have to confess, despite being pretty good at predicting a fair bit of madness, I really never expected that one. You can kind of see why a government might say shut down British industry or some other damaging act, but to get the sexes wrong is just bewildering to me. It makes me think, how far can the madness go and is there any limit.
The other thing which makes me think it is widespread is just how many different things are failing right now. It cuts across nearly every profession and the lark with the post office IT system in my mind is very typical. First the fuckwits could no longer program a simple computer system, and secondly the management were utterly out to lunch. I guess it goes on in many firms where all we ever see reported is closure or hundreds of job loses. It goes on in most councils and it goes on in the legal profession, the government, academia, nearly every politicians has lost the plot, as have the media. It's easier to ask who is still sane. Name one sane profession.
As far as any IT system issues are concerned, blame blair. He more than any handed development to monolithic software houses while denying the buyers the means to hire independent testers. You are pissing in the wind thinking you can replace one node in the system and think it will all work fine. You replace Blair and the next man will morph into a similar beast. All nodes have multiple inputs and multiple outputs. It's like the messiest software program you have ever worked on. How do you build a software system anyway? The way I do it is build something simple, test it, if it works like expected then add the next bit on and debug that. If something crazy happens you can always fall back to the last step which was a functional system. This is how we have been going for hundreds of years of government. No one would ever want to step back to a working system now. The governments introduce bugs and they remain in the system for the next fuckwit to add more and more and then you don't have something you can fall back on cos those people who worked that system are now dead and the older ways are forgotten.
I know you scoff at Christianity, but that is like a well hardened Unix type operating system that everyone is confident with. Everything talks to everything else and understands everything it is connected to. Basic rules of the system include things like never pass false witness. How would two operating systems cope if one was big-endian and the other little-endian and they were fucked at the most basic level where yes means no and so on. Another commandment is there is only one god. Well we know what happens if someone is managed by two different managers with separate agendas. As we all know with computer systems, we deliberately make restrictions so the system works in a more predicable fashion. Blair was a liar, but we know now most of the politicians are liars. When you get to this point not even the ones telling the truth will do you any good. How do we assess truth anyway? The de-facto way is to do a poll and add up the numbers who believe one thing vs another thing.
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