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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 5, 2024 16:37:43 GMT
An interesting comparison between the population and a rigid chemical crystalline lattice A hundred and fifty years ago only one in twenty of the population had any say in politics. No woman had, and the requirement that a voter be a landowner of land if such value that it would command a rental income of at least fifty shillings a year from its agricultural tenants ensured slightly less than one in ten men had any polutical influence. The remaining ninety five per cent of the country came to the notice of the state once every ten years in tbe census and that was that. Far from a crystalline lattice the uk was a liquid soup heavily laced with brownian motion, and a pretty pungent one too Even if we reduced it to an even simpler form where each node's state is binary and each node is identical then if we apply a formal mathematical treatment of such a model we get this:
This is what I mean by complex behaviour, so extrapolating to more complex systems can only get more hairy. Never-the-less some of these simple models can answer quite a few questions for us. I mean a good example of that is in statistical thermodynamics. It depends on what you want to know, but one thing it shows us is the idea that each individual's mental state is a function of their own head is blatantly incorrect. We can not characterise someone as sane and think if we insert them into this system that they will behave sanely. This is how we work in the system though. The thing is people's heads are really just a huge network of neurons which are firing according to sensory input. By closely coupling the brain with the wider system you increase the complexity of the over-all system. The brain is only likely to operate stably under a small subset of the range of sensory input it could receive.
One area where the Ising model shows us insight is in the case of phase boundaries. You get macroscopic effects upon crossing or being near to these boundaries. It's a subject of ongoing research in both mathematics and psychology at the moment. An Italian mathematician just got a Nobel Prize in his work in this field in fact. So I guess you could certainly say the science is far from obvious.
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Feb 5, 2024 19:01:51 GMT
I once read that we live in a society that is run by a form of Fascism that encourages the population to engage in "infantile emotional responses".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2024 15:18:36 GMT
There can be such a thing as national insanity as well as national stupidity. In dictatorships how insane or stupid a country is is largely determined by how insane or stupid the leaders are.
In democracies it is much less clear cut. Leaders and various other vested interests with clout can influence large sections of the public in their thinking, for good or ill. But ultimately the people have to be answered to. And the inherent problem for any democracy is the stupidity, gullibility, or irrationality of millions of voters. A large block of them are intellectually malleable, and readily persuadable if the right emotional buttons can be pressed. When most sources of information were in the effective hands of establishmentarian elites, this at least ensured a high degree of stability even if it ensured meaningful change for the better for most of us was unlikely. Now, however, with the rise of the internet, increasingly the opinion formers and influencers are no longer our own elites, but also in many cases not tribunes of the people either. Often our opinions are being influenced by enemy states, religious extremists, political extremists and a whole host of conspiracy theorists.
The minds of the gullible in any electorate are no longer under our own establishments' control.
For every thoughtful and intelligent person with an interest in politics, economics, and so on who will think for themselves, there are dozens of people who barely pay attention, have no interest in it and who lack either the intelligence or engagement to think for themselves, but instead will believe any old shite if if triggers the right emotional responses. And then vote accordingly.
This has always been the inherent flaw in any democracy and we have seen in the past nations where a combination of mass insanity or stupidity has levered obvious sociopaths into power. There are in this the obvious examples of both Fascist Italy and Hitler's Germany.
To a large extent where democracy has become embedded the stupidity of the masses was neutralised by the wealthy elites effective control of all sources of information, so that the masses were never persuaded to think anything too dangerous for the wellbeing of the status quo. But the rise of the internet is gifting the power to influence opinions to many other potential bad actors who have neither our elites or the rest of the peoples' interests at heart.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2024 15:36:54 GMT
I once read that we live in a society that is run by a form of Fascism that encourages the population to engage in "infantile emotional responses". That's how most people are persuaded to "think" by much of the media, corralled into supporting this or that by being encouraged to hate this or that scapegoat group, or to love this or that, especially monarchy, nation, and flag. Most people have learned to "think" about politics in terms of their emotional responses, without realising that they are being played. We who come to forums like this are unusual in actually thinking deeply about politics, and building that thinking on a foundation of knowledge, and are less susceptible to infantile emotional responses And we are far more inclined to deep thought about politics than the average joe. I mean no one signs up to a forum like this without having a deep interest in politics, and humans do tend to be highly knowledgeable about the things that interest them. Though even here there are one or two I can think of who feel more at home emoting rather than thinking. But for the most part we are representative of a politically intelligent minority. The majority out there tend to emote about politics rather than thinking about it, and those actors out there trying to mould public opinion have long been aware of this. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2024 15:55:57 GMT
Using the intelligence agencies and social media to build alternative universes is all fun and games until civisation collapses around your ears. Every person's view of the world is mediated by every social / communication interaction they have with those around them. It is quite possible for a society to go mental. There is a large degree of truth in that. We all have our own lived experiences which will have given us a particular perspective that has evolved in response to these, as well as helping to form and evolve our own political and social beliefs. Our families, friends, neighbours, and work colleagues over the years and the things we have seen happening in their lives will of course have influenced how we think as well. But it is not the whole picture. Opinion forming media elements have a role to play as well, and have at times been highly effective in terms of influencing the less thoughtful and more easily malleable. Especially if the emotional buttons being pressed to influence them resonate with things they see - or think they see - happening around them. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 7, 2024 22:45:07 GMT
There can be such a thing as national insanity as well as national stupidity. In dictatorships how insane or stupid a country is is largely determined by how insane or stupid the leaders are. In democracies it is much less clear cut. Leaders and various other vested interests with clout can influence large sections of the public in their thinking, for good or ill. But ultimately the people have to be answered to. And the inherent problem for any democracy is the stupidity, gullibility, or irrationality of millions of voters. A large block of them are intellectually malleable, and readily persuadable if the right emotional buttons can be pressed. When most sources of information were in the effective hands of establishmentarian elites, this at least ensured a high degree of stability even if it ensured meaningful change for the better for most of us was unlikely. Now, however, with the rise of the internet, increasingly the opinion formers and influencers are no longer our own elites, but also in many cases not tribunes of the people either. Often our opinions are being influenced by enemy states, religious extremists, political extremists and a whole host of conspiracy theorists. The minds of the gullible in any electorate are no longer under our own establishments' control. For every thoughtful and intelligent person with an interest in politics, economics, and so on who will think for themselves, there are dozens of people who barely pay attention, have no interest in it and who lack either the intelligence or engagement to think for themselves, but instead will believe any old shite if if triggers the right emotional responses. And then vote accordingly. This has always been the inherent flaw in any democracy and we have seen in the past nations where a combination of mass insanity or stupidity has levered obvious sociopaths into power. There are in this the obvious examples of both Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. To a large extent where democracy has become embedded the stupidity of the masses was neutralised by the wealthy elites effective control of all sources of information, so that the masses were never persuaded to think anything too dangerous for the wellbeing of the status quo. But the rise of the internet is gifting the power to influence opinions to many other potential bad actors who have neither our elites or the rest of the peoples' interests at heart. Perhaps it is this constant stimulation of emotional responses which is so unnatural that the brain eventually fails. It needs to key onto a consistent reality, like each time you so a certain thing the same thing happens due to the laws of physic,s so the brain learns real intelligence. If the stimuli are just random data with no sense then how can it function? It's the garbage in = garbage out problem. |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Feb 8, 2024 5:35:35 GMT
…. isn’t it a bit rich to blame The People, Social Media and Conspiracy FACTISTS for pointing out the collective madness trickling down from Religion(mostly extremist Zionism and extremist Islamists) and Deep State since 9/11?? Because the WEST didn’t pick out the rotten apples at the very top of the pyramid of power, control and money after the atrocity of 9/11 - arguably engineered for the West to attack Israel’s enemies in the Middle East … at Western tax-payers expense … We now have an extremist Left MSM that propagates all sorts of broken border nonsense, BLM anarchy and gender confusion nonsense … changing established history and science as we speak. We saw the Left forcibly oust peace-maker/economist expert Trump … replaced him with racist/sexist/anti-LGBTQ Democrat leaders - illustrated by a child groping pensioner with dementia called Biden. Result … we now stupidly have a NATO of Dr Strangeloves and Zionist genocidal/eugenics engineers joining the Zionist Nazis running the EU for the last 40 years pushing Eastern expansionism and ethnic cleansing in Ukraine and Gaza right now. Don’t blame ordinary Brits still watching the BBC and other UK MSM - for being deceived by these manipulations, Baron. The whole world is deceived by them too. … They are clearly controlled by foreign interest groups who are clearly not happy about Brexit. …. Yes, self determination, Democracy and FREE SPEECH has been missing from our Country for a while now … but we are boldly fighting back … … Why blame Social Media and Conspiracy Theorists … ordinary researchers for diagnosing who was sick here?… and correctly predicting for everyone who would listen … exactly what this erratic ‘mental patient’ was going to do next? … The pointers show they are prepping to engineer WW3 now. www.facebook.com/share/MTm68ZcxGmu5c4U9/This acute madness and manipulation comes from the very top and trickles down … and no ‘distractions’ from the ruling elites, Baron … will alter that perception … Fixing this problem is removing these Totalitarian ‘elites’, cleaning out Deep State … putting Religion back on the fringes of Common Sense where it belongs …. and confiscating the money Religion and other ‘distraction’ crooks stole from The People. But …. No. 1 is … taking back possession of our MSM … restoring FREE SPEECH and engineering a totally free Press and open debate. |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 8, 2024 23:49:45 GMT
Once again you blame Israel for 9/11 but what threat was Afghanistan to Israel? What wars have Israel and Afghanistan ever fought? Your theory is bollocks.
19 Arab terrorists, 15 of them Saudis, hijacked and crashed four airliners resulting in the invasion of Afghanistan because Bin Laden was in Afghanistan.
And the bastard confessed to it, before doing a runner into Pakistan, where he lived in luxury for another ten years.
Meanwhile, what really was an inside job was the fake "Chechen" terrorism of the 1999 Russian apartment bombings.
The Duma were briefed by mistake about the Volgodonsk bombing which was discussed in the Duma three days before it happened and then at Ryazan a sharp eyed resident spotted a bomb attack in progress, the Police came out and defused the bomb which tested positive for RDX.
They caught the men who had planted it, those men produced FSB ID cards, and were released on orders from the top.
The FSB then declared the Ryazan incident to be a training exercise.
If it had been a training exercise, residents and the Police would have been briefed in advance to prevent alarm.
It was a real bomb.
And you are aiding Putin with your distracting nonsense.
Russian MPs journalists and Alexander Litvinenko were murdered for bringing this to the world's attention.
Rival politicians are not allowed to stand for election, some have been murdered for criticising Putin openly, and Russia has waged illegal war against several peaceful neighbours since Putin's rise to power.
He is a megalomaniac with a Napoleon complex.
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 13, 2024 9:57:51 GMT
Notwithstanding that Vinny completely misses the point that the world is split between enmity between Judaism and Islam, (referencing 9/11), I think Baron is relying too heavily on his preference for science to explain human behaviour.
Ask yourself how we form our impressions of the world.
The first is how and where we are brought up...where we assimilate what is important. That is usually home and school.
Later it is who you associate with socially, steered by the formative years.
Probably the most influential element is where you interface with the rest of the world. That would be your chosen sources of news and views. And it is here that you become msnipulated. Not by what is discussed and edited by politically motivated press magnates but by what is NOT included. IOW what they choose to keep away from you so that their persuasive disvourse seems logically and emotionally obvious.
So a hive mind is constructed according to historical content (Nazism and the loss of WW1), catefully constructed sly and selectoive promises and the relative inability to do much about it for years.
Politics is all about jam tomorrow. The people rarely ask how it will happen until they get impatient. Just a look at the housing issue that has been a serious issue for 30 years...Tories are now suddenly trying to reassure voters that disgusting living conditions and homes for all will be solved if you vote for them. Yet some still believe it.
I cant answer to or understand the Trump fiasco except to say that there are millions of Americans who cant name a Canadian province let alone know anything about global issues. To them NATO is America's gift to Europe, not understanding the subtlety that if Russia attacks a NATO member, it can attack America.
Hive minds are the product of early years and social contact, personal experience and to a huge degree, the political and press partnerships. Not forgetting of course, the rampant desire for power.
For that they need oppositional positions. So we are fed Jewish/Muslim/ Christian Western news, Left vs Right propaganda, terms like woke which most people have been led to understand as something negative, gender issues calculated to divide the population, and the churning goes on and on, like creating more wheels for more hamsters.
It is against their interests to offer unified opinions unless the "other" is a serious threat to everyone. Their purpose is to create "others".
And far far too many people on strugggle street dont have the energy to recognise it, let alone tand above it. It is easier to find those you agree with than stand alone. So you are part of the hive mind that is manipulated by politicians and the press who soothe your furrowed brow and tell you it'll all be fine. Tomorrow.
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Post by Orac on Feb 13, 2024 12:12:21 GMT
In my humble opinion..
There are two things happening that create a perfect storm and feedback with each other
1 Is nobody's fault. The advent of social media has allowed the creation of palpable and effective VRs
2 Is somebody's fault. The dismantling of western cultural values means that the one cultural entity capable of putting this into proper perspective has been disabled and bound.
Chaos awaits - we will be lucky to avoid it now.
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