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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 12:50:31 GMT
The brother in law lives in France monte , and surely you mean the English/portuguese drink of port? The only thing is can think of that was British was an empire , and even then that was a misnomer according to many English historians like frank Ridley. Actually port is more Scots than English. The Symington family who own Cockburn's amongst others are Scottish (clan Douglas). As were Robert and John Cockburn from Leith who first developed the vineyards of the Upper Douro Valley. As you probably know whisky distilleries buy up used port barrels to mature fine single malts in a desperate attempt to get rid of the flavour of floor cleaner. I say British because port was developed at the height of Empire as a way for wine to survive the long and tough passage to India. Rab Cockburn got the idea of port when he was in Portugal , and later returned there from what im reading. So like I said , it's Portuguese . The Symington family ( Symington isn't a Scottish name , the village of Symington was founded by flemish settlers in the medieval era) have only owned cockburns since 2010. If by British you mean port is British simply because of some vague association with the British empire, itself a misnomer , then the term British is meaningless , because it could then be applied to anything and everything similarly acssociated with the British empire across 65 world nations and billions of people. All these attempts to culturally appropriate things as British does get laughable monte. A country that doesn't exist on any map , doesn't have a native language , or culture , but somehow because of association with an old empire , certain things magically become British , shows the madness that persists today in certain folks minds. port is no more British , than it is European..............  |
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Post by sheepy on Jan 27, 2024 12:53:59 GMT
On a different note, I have heard plenty Scots say they don't have a clue what Rabbie is blathering about either.
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 12:58:59 GMT
On a different note, I have heard plenty Scots say they don't have a clue what Rabbie is blathering about either. I know sheepy. I said that up the page to Walter. In Glasgow , because of the Irish sectarian divide , certain Scots dont even celebrate burns night , being more concerned with st Patricks day , or the 12th July walks . You are more likely to hear come out ye Black and Tans in places like carfin than anyone reciting burns. It's getting better though . |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 27, 2024 13:02:29 GMT
Actually port is more Scots than English. The Symington family who own Cockburn's amongst others are Scottish (clan Douglas). As were Robert and John Cockburn from Leith who first developed the vineyards of the Upper Douro Valley. As you probably know whisky distilleries buy up used port barrels to mature fine single malts in a desperate attempt to get rid of the flavour of floor cleaner. I say British because port was developed at the height of Empire as a way for wine to survive the long and tough passage to India. Rab Cockburn got the idea of port when he was in Portugal , and later returned there from what im reading. So like I said , it's Portuguese . The Symington family ( Symington isn't a Scottish name , the village of Symington was founded by flemish settlers in the medieval era) have only owned cockburns since 2010. If by British you mean port is British simply because of some vague association with the British empire, itself a misnomer , then the term British is meaningless , because it could then be applied to anything and everything similarly acssociated with the British empire across 65 world nations and billions of people. All these attempts to culturally appropriate things as British does get laughable monte. A country that doesn't exist on any map , doesn't have a native language , or culture , but somehow because of association with an old empire , certain things magically become British , shows the madness that persists today in certain folks minds. port is no more British , than it is European.............. Andrew James Symington ('AJ') arrived in Portugal in 1882 aged just 19. His father was a Glasgow merchant and his mother hailed from Unst in the Shetland Islands. After a short stint at Graham’s Port, AJ set up a small port shipping operation under his own name. In 1891 he married Porto-born Beatrice Leitão de Carvalhosa Atkinson, whose grandfather had been a port producer and shipper since 1814 and whose Portuguese mother was descended from the pioneering port merchants of the 17th century. Today's 5th generation of Symingtons working in the port trade can trace their lineage back through 14 generations to 1652 via their great-great-grandmother to the earliest days of port’s long history. In 1905 AJ became a partner in Warre's Port, the first and oldest British port company established in Portugal. Curiously, at this time the Warre family were the principal owners of Dow’s Port and had no remaining interest in the company that bore their name. In 1912, Dow’s senior partner, George A. Warre decided to return to England and invited AJ to manage the Douro vineyards of Dow, its lodges and stocks in Gaia. In the same year, a share swap took place whereby AJ took a stake in Dow’s and George Warre once again took shares in Warre & Co. The successful partnership between the Symingtons as port producers in the Douro and Gaia and the Warres looking after the sales in London lasted for half a century until 1961 when the Symingtons became the sole owners of both Dow’s and Warre's. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 13:05:57 GMT
Rab Cockburn got the idea of port when he was in Portugal , and later returned there from what im reading. So like I said , it's Portuguese . The Symington family ( Symington isn't a Scottish name , the village of Symington was founded by flemish settlers in the medieval era) have only owned cockburns since 2010. If by British you mean port is British simply because of some vague association with the British empire, itself a misnomer , then the term British is meaningless , because it could then be applied to anything and everything similarly acssociated with the British empire across 65 world nations and billions of people. All these attempts to culturally appropriate things as British does get laughable monte. A country that doesn't exist on any map , doesn't have a native language , or culture , but somehow because of association with an old empire , certain things magically become British , shows the madness that persists today in certain folks minds. port is no more British , than it is European.............. Andrew James Symington ('AJ') arrived in Portugal in 1882 aged just 19. His father was a Glasgow merchant and his mother hailed from Unst in the Shetland Islands. After a short stint at Graham’s Port, AJ set up a small port shipping operation under his own name. In 1891 he married Porto-born Beatrice Leitão de Carvalhosa Atkinson, whose grandfather had been a port producer and shipper since 1814 and whose Portuguese mother was descended from the pioneering port merchants of the 17th century. Today's 5th generation of Symingtons working in the port trade can trace their lineage back through 14 generations to 1652 via their great-great-grandmother to the earliest days of port’s long history. In 1905 AJ became a partner in Warre's Port, the first and oldest British port company established in Portugal. Curiously, at this time the Warre family were the principal owners of Dow’s Port and had no remaining interest in the company that bore their name. In 1912, Dow’s senior partner, George A. Warre decided to return to England and invited AJ to manage the Douro vineyards of Dow, its lodges and stocks in Gaia. In the same year, a share swap took place whereby AJ took a stake in Dow’s and George Warre once again took shares in Warre & Co. The successful partnership between the Symingtons as port producers in the Douro and Gaia and the Warres looking after the sales in London lasted for half a century until 1961 when the Symingtons became the sole owners of both Dow’s and Warre's. thanks for that monte........but what are you telling me? Whats your point? that Andy Symington married a Portuguese woman whose family had been port producer and shipper for generations? Sorry mate , not had enough coffee yet to compute the nuance of your post? Port definitely sounds more and more European as the thread goes on.......... |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 27, 2024 13:30:50 GMT
www.symington.com/content/family-historyAndrew James Symington ('AJ') arrived in Portugal in 1882 aged just 19. His father was a Glasgow merchant and his mother hailed from Unst in the Shetland Islands. After a short stint at Graham’s Port, AJ set up a small port shipping operation under his own name. In 1891 he married Porto-born Beatrice Leitão de Carvalhosa Atkinson, whose grandfather had been a port producer and shipper since 1814 and whose Portuguese mother was descended from the pioneering port merchants of the 17th century. Today's 5th generation of Symingtons working in the port trade can trace their lineage back through 14 generations to 1652 via their great-great-grandmother to the earliest days of port’s long history. In 1905 AJ became a partner in Warre's Port, the first and oldest British port company established in Portugal. Curiously, at this time the Warre family were the principal owners of Dow’s Port and had no remaining interest in the company that bore their name. In 1912, Dow’s senior partner, George A. Warre decided to return to England and invited AJ to manage the Douro vineyards of Dow, its lodges and stocks in Gaia. In the same year, a share swap took place whereby AJ took a stake in Dow’s and George Warre once again took shares in Warre & Co. The successful partnership between the Symingtons as port producers in the Douro and Gaia and the Warres looking after the sales in London lasted for half a century until 1961 when the Symingtons became the sole owners of both Dow’s and Warre's. thanks for that monte........but what are you telling me? Whats your point? that Andy Symington married a Portuguese woman whose family had been port producer and shipper for generations? Sorry mate , not had enough coffee yet to compute the nuance of your post? Port definitely sounds more and more European as the thread goes on.......... The only Portuguese owned major port producer is Sandemans. All the rest are British owned. It's a British industry. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 13:36:57 GMT
thanks for that monte........but what are you telling me? Whats your point? that Andy Symington married a Portuguese woman whose family had been port producer and shipper for generations? Sorry mate , not had enough coffee yet to compute the nuance of your post? Port definitely sounds more and more European as the thread goes on.......... The only Portuguese owned major port producer is Sandemans. All the rest are British owned. It's a British industry. three quarters of whiskey distillerys are foreign owned , not Scottish . Are you going to say whiskey isnae Scottish? |
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Post by walterpaisley on Jan 27, 2024 13:43:07 GMT
Quite interesting fact, Shakespeare's birthday and the day he died are both remembered on the 23rd April. Also St George's day. There's plenty who'd dispute "fact". Personally, I find the charming idea that our National Bard both came and went on the feast day of our national saint about as believable as Jesus being born on December 25th.. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 27, 2024 13:47:20 GMT
The only Portuguese owned major port producer is Sandemans. All the rest are British owned. It's a British industry. three quarters of whiskey distillerys are foreign owned , not Scottish . Are you going to say whiskey isnae Scottish? Ah, but the major port houses were established and developed by the British. Just as the major distilleries were established by the Scots. Whisky is Scots/Irish, port is British. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 13:50:36 GMT
three quarters of whiskey distillerys are foreign owned , not Scottish . Are you going to say whiskey isnae Scottish? Ah, but the major port houses were established and developed by the British. Just as the major distilleries were established by the Scots. Whisky is Scots/Irish, port is British. many countries produce whiskey Including Japan. Port is European , becuase not only the English and other nations in these islands are involved , but non British nations like Portugal. So what are you talking about? |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 27, 2024 13:55:31 GMT
Quite interesting fact, Shakespeare's birthday and the day he died are both remembered on the 23rd April. Also St George's day. There's plenty who'd dispute "fact". Personally, I find the charming idea that our National Bard both came and went on the feast day of our national saint about as believable as Jesus being born on December 25th.. He was baptised on the 26th but there is no record of his birth. It has been ''agreed'' that the 23rd should be celebrated as it was recommended that a child be baptised within 3 days of birth. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 14:05:50 GMT
There's plenty who'd dispute "fact". Personally, I find the charming idea that our National Bard both came and went on the feast day of our national saint about as believable as Jesus being born on December 25th.. He was baptised on the 26th but there is no record of his birth. It has been ''agreed'' that the 23rd should be celebrated as it was recommended that a child be baptised within 3 days of birth. who we talking about? That Turkish guy? im with Walter on that one im afraid monte. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 27, 2024 14:09:37 GMT
He was baptised on the 26th but there is no record of his birth. It has been ''agreed'' that the 23rd should be celebrated as it was recommended that a child be baptised within 3 days of birth. who we talking about? That Turkish guy? im with Walter on that one im afraid monte. The Bard not the mythical dragon slayer. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 14:10:31 GMT
I haven't tried any European port for quite a while monte , with good French cheese , and of course Caledonian crackers . Ive often wondered monte when the Roman Empire came to an end , did the descendants of the citizens of Rome similarly stand navel gazing about empire , and try to culturally misappropriate everything as roman ?
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 14:15:17 GMT
who we talking about? That Turkish guy? im with Walter on that one im afraid monte. The Bard not the mythical dragon slayer. I think bard is pushing it a bit. His writings on Macbeth was among the biggest pieces of historical bullshit written in the English language. marginally eclipsed by that once more unto the breach dear friends guff . Burns was more my kind of guy , sharp tongued , witty and of course a staunch Scottish republican . |
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