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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 26, 2024 16:17:55 GMT
Yet there is no such fuss made over Shakespeare day. I suspect few would even know the date without looking it up. I recently read Bill Bryson's quite interesting book, Shakespeare, the World as a Stage. I don't think he even gives Shakespeare day a mention. Quite interesting fact, Shakespeare's birthday and the day he died are both remembered on the 23rd April. Also St George's day.
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Post by Ripley on Jan 26, 2024 16:25:39 GMT
Shakespeare isn't easy reading, it's Old English with very odd phrases and grammar. As inaccessible as Shakespeare's language sometimes is, it's not Old English, Vinny. Amazingly, it's Early Modern English. Old English was spoken and written in Britain from the 5th century to the middle of the 11th century. It began evolving into Middle English (think Chaucer's Canterbury Tales), with the arrival of the Normans in 1066 and by 1350 Middle English had taken over. By about 1450, Middle English was replaced with Early Modern English.
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Post by morayloon on Jan 27, 2024 1:15:43 GMT
But that's unlikely to scotch the word's use in the wrong context — in cooking there's Scotch bonnet, Scotch broth, Scotch pancake and Scotch woodcock (not sure why I've used leading caps, but it seems correct).
A work colleague born and raised in Edinburgh, who claims to have parents also born and bred there, refers to himself as Scotch. I think I'd use Scottish because I've told that's correct. And I don't usually refer to Jocks, Paddies and Taffies either, probably because I've seen that they're mostly meant and used negatively...
or if you ask forum member moray loon what the teuchters have to say , you will see we are all singing from the same hymn sheet regarding `scotch`. Up here we'd just ask for whisky. But, if you look at the labels of Malts and Blends, most, e.g., Macallan (malt) or The Famous Grouse (blend), include the word 'Scotch'. The Trade body for the whisky industry is the 'Scotch Whisky Association'. The description was used more in the past e.g. seemingly, in 1918, the Scotch Education Department became the Scottish education Department dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/scotsLooking down the list provided, in the Dictionars o the Scots Leid, Scots, Scottish and Scotch were used interchangeably.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 27, 2024 8:53:11 GMT
Correct fellow Brit.
Scotch is a valid word for the origin of foods or drinks made in the region.
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 11:12:36 GMT
im not a big whiskey drinker monte. The point is though letting Ripley know the use of the term scotch is a no no in scotland. It's seen as an insult , and not something you say among a group of Scots if you are socialising. im sure the Japanese , who make good whiskey , would take exception to your rule . A 'true Scotsman' drinks fancy imported French wines eh Thomas? of course. We have a long trading history with our French friends and longstanding allies. It would be rather rude not to enjoy their fine wines and hospitality.
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 11:13:20 GMT
People from Scotland are fellow Brits. ...and fellow europeans Vinny. Not long now till you get your red European citizens passport back.
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 11:18:02 GMT
Shakespeare isn't easy reading, it's Old English with very odd phrases and grammar. Shakespeare didnt speak old English Vinny. Old English is a German language , Shakespeare wrote and spoke early modern English. Half of which is French.
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 11:19:27 GMT
Shakespeare isn't easy reading, it's Old English with very odd phrases and grammar. As inaccessible as Shakespeare's language sometimes is, it's not Old English, Vinny. Amazingly, it's Early Modern English. Old English was spoken and written in Britain from the 5th century to the middle of the 11th century. It began evolving into Middle English (think Chaucer's Canterbury Tales), with the arrival of the Normans in 1066 and by 1350 Middle English had taken over. By about 1450, Middle English was replaced with Early Modern English. just read that after replying to Vinny. All this free education our friend Vinny gets on this forum really must be expanding his mind .
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 11:33:18 GMT
or if you ask forum member moray loon what the teuchters have to say , you will see we are all singing from the same hymn sheet regarding `scotch`. Up here we'd just ask for whisky. But, if you look at the labels of Malts and Blends, most, e.g., Macallan (malt) or The Famous Grouse (blend), include the word 'Scotch'. The Trade body for the whisky industry is the 'Scotch Whisky Association'. The description was used more in the past e.g. seemingly, in 1918, the Scotch Education Department became the Scottish education Department dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/scotsLooking down the list provided, in the Dictionars o the Scots Leid, Scots, Scottish and Scotch were used interchangeably. so pretty much the same as the weegies then . The only people who would ask for a scotch is foreigners. Do doric speakers use the term scotch in polite conversation ? Three quarters of Scottish distilleries are foreign owned , so im not sure them using the word scotch is an emblem of how Scottish they are . Isn't the term scotch , whether it was used for education departments , or whatever , simply part of the process of creeping anglicisation in our culture over the modern era? Wether its on the label of whiskey bottles , or wether imposed onto an education department , ive never heard scotch being used in polite conversation among west coasters. I have family up in caithness and Angus , weegies who have moved to those areas , and again it's not something ive come across elsewhere in scotland. Need to have a look moray. Perhaps it was in doric, but again in Glaswegian lallans , ive not come across it. The `otch` pronunciation of scotch comes across to me as a distinctly English , especially southern English , pronunciation .
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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 27, 2024 12:12:41 GMT
A 'true Scotsman' drinks fancy imported French wines eh Thomas? of course. We have a long trading history with our French friends and longstanding allies. It would be rather rude not to enjoy their fine wines and hospitality. Preaching to the choir there Thomas. I own my own small plot in Aquitaine. I prefer the British drink of port though.
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Post by walterpaisley on Jan 27, 2024 12:12:59 GMT
Shakespeare isn't easy reading, it's Old English with very odd phrases and grammar. As inaccessible as Shakespeare's language sometimes is,. I was raised on Shakespeare from an early age - Mum (before children came along and ruined it) was an actor, and Lamb's Tales From Shakespeare and a huge box set of heavily truncated audio plays ("Argo Classics") were household fixtures. I've been seeing stage productions since I was five, and my own boys have been raised (or "indoctrinated"?) with the same appreciation. Consequently, I find the language of the Bard as straightforward as the instructions for my toaster. .. but I find Robert Burns far more of a problem. Even with his writing in a more accessible version of the Scottish dialect (often a mixture of "Lowland Scottish" & the more anglicised "Light Scottish") I'm pretty stumped by a lot of it - although I can enjoy the sound, and pick up on the meaning. (Proud owner of Mum's first edition of the Complete Works - which sits on the bookshelves next to a much-thumbed Scottish/English dictionary..) Off to a (belated) Burns' Night bash this evening. Always fun, and with a pretty unusual twist - he's of Pakistani heritage (raised in Glasgow), and she's a Daughter of the Highlands. Curried haggis is far nicer than it sounds. (He even wears a "traditional" tartan for the occasion. Just to prove how ludicrous the whole Tartan Industry is, there are shops up and down the Royal Mile where they'll happily kit you out with your family plaid - whether you're a Mcmillan, a McAllister, a Patel or a Goldstein. I shall proudly wear my McDuff scarf..)
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 12:15:17 GMT
of course. We have a long trading history with our French friends and longstanding allies. It would be rather rude not to enjoy their fine wines and hospitality. Preaching to the choir there Thomas. I own my own small plot in Aquitaine. I prefer to drink the British drink of port though. The brother in law lives in France monte , and surely you mean the English/portuguese drink of port? The only thing is can think of that was British was an empire , and even then that was a misnomer according to many English historians like frank Ridley.
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Post by thomas on Jan 27, 2024 12:19:54 GMT
As inaccessible as Shakespeare's language sometimes is,. .. but I find Robert Burns far more of a problem. Even with his writing in a more accessible version of the Scottish dialect (often a mixture of "Lowland Scottish" & the more anglicised "Light Scottish") I'm pretty stumped by a lot of it - although I can enjoy the sound, and pick up on the meaning. (Proud owner of Mum's first edition of the Complete Works - which sits on the bookshelves next to a much-thumbed Scottish/English dictionary..) Apparently burns mother was a native gaidhlig speaker , his father from Aberdeenshire ,and the Gaelic language still survived in Ayrshire in his day. I think his Scots dialect had undergone a tremendous change over the previous two centuries due to the process of anglicisation , and the laws enacted by the Stewart monarchs and their governments to erase both gaidhlig and Scots , and replace the language of the Scottish population with a standardised English . Many Scots today would struggle with burns native speech , so its no surprise you have problems reading it.
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Post by walterpaisley on Jan 27, 2024 12:27:55 GMT
Many Scots today would struggle with burns native speech , so its no surprise you have problems reading it. That's not saying much - I struggle with "Oor Wullie".
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Post by Montegriffo on Jan 27, 2024 12:38:37 GMT
Preaching to the choir there Thomas. I own my own small plot in Aquitaine. I prefer to drink the British drink of port though. The brother in law lives in France monte , and surely you mean the English/portuguese drink of port? The only thing is can think of that was British was an empire , and even then that was a misnomer according to many English historians like frank Ridley. Actually port is more Scots than English. The Symington family who own Cockburn's amongst others are Scottish (clan Douglas). As were Robert and John Cockburn from Leith who first developed the vineyards of the Upper Douro Valley. As you probably know whisky distilleries buy up used port barrels to mature fine single malts in a desperate attempt to get rid of the flavour of floor cleaner. I say British because port was developed at the height of Empire as a way for wine to survive the long and tough passage to India.
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