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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2024 16:21:15 GMT
Here it is again, Tinculin. This is how the Scottish Fascists behave whilst expecting you to do their dirty work.
EDIT: It's OK, Thomas. Moderation has to support you altering other people's posts, name calling, spamming gifs and relying on personal abuse in order to support your hypocritical complaints and reports. I was responding to Sandypine just before you started spamming your gif images to impress your cult.
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Post by thomas on Jan 29, 2024 16:21:53 GMT
See what I mean, Tinculin? so . Despite trolling thread after thread , largely off topic , and making personal slights towards members you dont agree with , when this is returned in kind , you appeal to the forum owner when you get a taste of your own medicine? We are discussing nationalism on a Scottish thread. Have you any input , towards conducive debate, or are you merely here to troll , in which case I will respond in kind? |
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Post by thomas on Jan 29, 2024 16:23:27 GMT
Well in your logic a better comparison would be that the invasion of Afghanistan by the legal government of India in 1878 means that India invaded Afghanistan to try and make it a colony. I got your point as regards names but largely the plantation was drawn from the Border Scots and Ayrshire area where the Church of Scotland held sway and the Covenant was much supported. The question is why does the snat keep relying on Ireland whilst trying to make out that he's a victim of the English? He's been spreading the same nonsense to try and get the Welsh onboard, too. As for Scottish surnames then it was all the rage amongst the Scottish slavers back in the day. we are discussing ireland as an English colony , and the reasons behind that brit nat. Do you have anything to add to the debate , or are you merely hereto troll and whine ? |
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Post by thomas on Jan 29, 2024 17:01:12 GMT
Here it is again, Tinculin. This is how the Scottish Fascists behave whilst expecting you to do their dirty work.
EDIT: It's OK, Thomas. Moderation has to support you altering other people's posts, name calling, spamming gifs and relying on personal abuse in order to support your hypocritical complaints and reports. I was responding to Sandypine just before you started spamming your gif images to impress your cult.
edit. Its ok b4 do you want to discuss the topic at hand , or shall I accept you are merely here to troll ? |
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Post by thomas on Jan 29, 2024 17:03:49 GMT
All through this thread , you have attempted to futilely pass the buck , muck rake , and cherry pick to try and forward your puerile points. All because I simply said ireland was an English colony. Religion has played a major part in the events in Ireland from the outset and was a factor in shifting support and bitter dissent from the word go ok. I disagree , unless you are talking about wider religion issue rather than the modern sectarianism. However , this is another of your diversions. How does religion refute my contention ireland was a colony of England ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2024 17:06:56 GMT
Here it is again, Tinculin. This is how the Scottish Fascists behave whilst expecting you to do their dirty work.
EDIT: It's OK, Thomas. Moderation has to support you altering other people's posts, name calling, spamming gifs and relying on personal abuse in order to support your hypocritical complaints and reports. I was responding to Sandypine just before you started spamming your gif images to impress your cult.
edit. Its ok b4 do you want to discuss the topic at hand , or shall I accept you are merely here to troll ? Tinculin will either support your behaviour or he will not. The fact that I can't even respond to Sandypine without you trolling the thread and lying about it is enough to highlight the problem.
EDIT: there's no debate to be had with the ScotNat trolls who spam gif images, rewrites other people's posts, posts personal abuse and name calls. It's why I chose to respond to a nice Scotsman called Sandypine, even though the ScotNat trolls altered my posts with gif images and abuse. All I can do is highlight it.
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Post by thomas on Jan 29, 2024 17:45:21 GMT
edit. Its ok b4 do you want to discuss the topic at hand , or shall I accept you are merely here to troll ? Tinculin will either support your behaviour or he will not. The fact that I can't even respond to Sandypine without you trolling the thread and lying about it is enough to highlight the problem. never mind tincullin , Sandypine or anyone else. Do you want to discuss and debate the topic at hand , or not? If not , stop trolling the thread. This is a debating forum . |
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Post by morayloon on Jan 29, 2024 19:12:58 GMT
edit. Its ok b4 do you want to discuss the topic at hand , or shall I accept you are merely here to troll ? Tinculin will either support your behaviour or he will not. The fact that I can't even respond to Sandypine without you trolling the thread and lying about it is enough to highlight the problem.
EDIT: there's no debate to be had with the ScotNat trolls who spam gif images, rewrites other people's posts, posts personal abuse and name calls. It's why I chose to respond to a nice Scotsman called Sandypine, even though the ScotNat trolls altered my posts with gif images and abuse. All I can do is highlight it.
I am a Scottish Nationalist and I have not done any of the things you accuse T of. But, back to the subject at hand. I see you have not responded to my queries! I thought that would be the case. Is T right? Are you a mere troll, as he has suggested? With nothing substantive to add to the discussion, you rely on name calling and making dodgy, and offensive political points |
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Post by wapentake on Jan 29, 2024 19:53:49 GMT
If you respect democracy you can’t stop a majority achieving independence, the snp we’re going full steam ahead all looked rosy then Sturgeon attacked her predecessor with words to the effect he wasn’t fit to lead anything not least the snp he’d damaged them.
It’s all come back to bite her on the bum and she’s been caught out on more than one front and imo has set back the nationalist push for Indy having said all that she not unusual in her behaviour as a politician.
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Post by sandypine on Jan 29, 2024 20:32:21 GMT
I see puerile has now appeared as a new derogatory word in this discussion. However to progress. Numbers. "The ratio of Scottish to English settlers in Ulster during the 17th century has often been put at five or six to one, with one rough estimate reckoning there were 100,000 Scots and 20,000 English at the time of the rebellion of 1641. The proportion would have been much higher in Antrim and north Down and more evenly balanced in the six west Ulster counties involved in the official Plantation scheme. The Gaelic-speaking Irish still formed a significant majority in most parishes in those counties by mid-century." www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/plantation/ulsterscots/index.shtmlYou did indeed say Ireland was an English colony for over 700 years. I pointed out that in terms of that being accurate it is a very complicated interaction of historical events that does not quite meet the simple premise England invaded Ireland and made her a colony. Religion has played a major part in the events in Ireland from the outset and was a factor in shifting support and bitter dissent from the word go. To believe it is limited to modern sectarianism is a bit simplistic. The example of the Wexford Bridge was to show that religion and not nationality was one of the deep rooted hatreds at work. There are many other examples going back to before plantation and the support of the Papacy in the initial Norman invasion. Queen Mary was initially accepted by many in Ireland as she was a Catholic and her co religionists expected support. It is never cut and dried. My contention to you was that ireland was an English colony. How does this refute that claim ? No one but you is arguing that there were not Scottish colonists in ulster. There were colonists from many countries in ireland. The vast majority over the longest time English. However , if not one English colonist had colonised ireland , it still wouldn't refute my point . To renew my point. 1.Ireland was a colony. Aye , ireland was conquered and settled , and fits the definition of colony. 2. Ireland was an English colony. Aye , it was conquered and settled on behalf of the English crown. Back to you. Your contention was that Ireland was an English colony for over 700 years. I disputed that outlook. You are now saying the Crown is the active part of what makes anything a colony of another country. Which makes Orkney and Shetland Scottish colonies and Ireland a Scottish colony in places as it was settled by subjects of teh Scottish Crown |
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Post by thomas on Jan 30, 2024 7:55:58 GMT
My contention to you was that ireland was an English colony. How does this refute that claim ? No one but you is arguing that there were not Scottish colonists in ulster. There were colonists from many countries in ireland. The vast majority over the longest time English. However , if not one English colonist had colonised ireland , it still wouldn't refute my point . To renew my point. 1.Ireland was a colony. Aye , ireland was conquered and settled , and fits the definition of colony. 2. Ireland was an English colony. Aye , it was conquered and settled on behalf of the English crown. Back to you. Your contention was that Ireland was an English colony for over 700 years. I disputed that outlook. you did. You have disputed my contention , but you haven't shown me how im wrong. Back to you? im not now saying anything different. My position that Ireland was a colony of England has remained resolutely consistent throughout this thread. You are the one who disagreed , but can't show me how my contention is wrong , and in between , has once more littered the thread with every diversion you can get your hands on. Back to you. My contention since day one has been the English crown , from the treaty of Windsor onwards , annexed ireland , and the colonising of ireland was done in the name of the English crown. Ergo........ireland was an English colony. It's not difficult sandy. Please show me how that is wrong? Back to you? Another sandy diversion. You may think orkney and shetland are Scottish colonies , but that doesn't detract from the fact ireland was an English colony. Please show me how im wrong? back to you? nope. James 6th in 1603 took the English crown. One man two crowns. His ability to colonise ireland was due to the rights of annexation of the English crown. He was advised to carry on the plantation of ireland that had begun under Mary Tudor , by his English ministers. Wether the English crown was held by a frenchman , a scotsman , a German or a dutchman , the common denominator was it was the English crown that laid the claim to ireland , from the treaty of Windsor onwards( the treaty is very specific about this) ergo ireland was an English colony. Back to you. Please show me why ireland wasn't an English colony.? |
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Post by sandypine on Jan 30, 2024 11:01:28 GMT
Your contention was that Ireland was an English colony for over 700 years. I disputed that outlook. you did. You have disputed my contention , but you haven't shown me how im wrong. Back to you? im not now saying anything different. My position that Ireland was a colony of England has remained resolutely consistent throughout this thread. You are the one who disagreed , but can't show me how my contention is wrong , and in between , has once more littered the thread with every diversion you can get your hands on. Back to you. My contention since day one has been the English crown , from the treaty of Windsor onwards , annexed ireland , and the colonising of ireland was done in the name of the English crown. Ergo........ireland was an English colony. It's not difficult sandy. Please show me how that is wrong? Back to you? Another sandy diversion. You may think orkney and shetland are Scottish colonies , but that doesn't detract from the fact ireland was an English colony. Please show me how im wrong? back to you? nope. James 6th in 1603 took the English crown. One man two crowns. His ability to colonise ireland was due to the rights of annexation of the English crown. He was advised to carry on the plantation of ireland that had begun under Mary Tudor , by his English ministers. Wether the English crown was held by a frenchman , a scotsman , a German or a dutchman , the common denominator was it was the English crown that laid the claim to ireland , from the treaty of Windsor onwards( the treaty is very specific about this) ergo ireland was an English colony. Back to you. Please show me why ireland wasn't an English colony.? Because England was invaded by Normans who took control of the English Crown by force and planted their aristocracy into positions of power. The English had no say in the matter. The same Norman people then went on to invade Ireland and the Irish accepted that leadership in the same way the English did and a Norman Crown ruled Ireland and England. I agree getting on for Tudor times the English had become in general absorbed into the Crown and the seat of power had become England though even today the English aristocracy is noted for its lineages stretching back to Norman times although new money from Yeoman and industrial wealth has diluted that. My contention is that blaming 'the English' is a rather popular pastime and calling Ireland a colony of England from over 700 years ago is part of that popular denigration of the English. History is far more complicated and nuanced than the simplistic 'hate' versions. A Colony as you described requires colonialization by the power base country but Ireland was not colonised by the English it was colonised, certainly at the time you refer to, by Normans. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 31, 2024 8:22:19 GMT
you did. You have disputed my contention , but you haven't shown me how im wrong. Back to you? im not now saying anything different. My position that Ireland was a colony of England has remained resolutely consistent throughout this thread. You are the one who disagreed , but can't show me how my contention is wrong , and in between , has once more littered the thread with every diversion you can get your hands on. Back to you. My contention since day one has been the English crown , from the treaty of Windsor onwards , annexed ireland , and the colonising of ireland was done in the name of the English crown. Ergo........ireland was an English colony. It's not difficult sandy. Please show me how that is wrong? Back to you? Another sandy diversion. You may think orkney and shetland are Scottish colonies , but that doesn't detract from the fact ireland was an English colony. Please show me how im wrong? back to you? nope. James 6th in 1603 took the English crown. One man two crowns. His ability to colonise ireland was due to the rights of annexation of the English crown. He was advised to carry on the plantation of ireland that had begun under Mary Tudor , by his English ministers. Wether the English crown was held by a frenchman , a scotsman , a German or a dutchman , the common denominator was it was the English crown that laid the claim to ireland , from the treaty of Windsor onwards( the treaty is very specific about this) ergo ireland was an English colony. Back to you. Please show me why ireland wasn't an English colony.? Because England was invaded by Normans who took control of the English Crown by force and planted their aristocracy into positions of power. The English had no say in the matter. The same Norman people then went on to invade Ireland and the Irish accepted that leadership in the same way the English did and a Norman Crown ruled Ireland and England. I agree getting on for Tudor times the English had become in general absorbed into the Crown and the seat of power had become England though even today the English aristocracy is noted for its lineages stretching back to Norman times although new money from Yeoman and industrial wealth has diluted that. My contention is that blaming 'the English' is a rather popular pastime and calling Ireland a colony of England from over 700 years ago is part of that popular denigration of the English. History is far more complicated and nuanced than the simplistic 'hate' versions. A Colony as you described requires colonialization by the power base country but Ireland was not colonised by the English it was colonised, certainly at the time you refer to, by Normans. we have been over this now a number of times. In the original treaty of Windsor , the king of England and the English are mentioned twelve times .No one is blaming your wife today , nor is anyone blaming ranulph the 12th century saxon in his mud hut. The point is , ireland is an English colony because the king of England , not the king of anywhere else , invaded ireland and made the Irish swear fealty to the English crown. not the crown of normandy , Anjou or anywhere else. Many of the soldiers were lowly English men at arms, and the English king began the colonisation of ireland from that point not just with an anglo Norman elite , but with lowly English men as well. Even if you dont accept this , we have many other examples to pick from as I said.Henry the 8th declaring himself king of ireland. The subsequent abolishing of the old Gaelic titles and English titles being bestowed on those who swore fealty. The colonisation and plantation of ireland over centuries . English colonists from Nottinghamshire praising then Munster colony in 1590. So on and so forth. Ireland was an English colony , and so far , despite your desperate attempts to divert , you still haven't proved otherwise. |
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Post by sheepy on Jan 31, 2024 8:50:25 GMT
Because England was invaded by Normans who took control of the English Crown by force and planted their aristocracy into positions of power. The English had no say in the matter. The same Norman people then went on to invade Ireland and the Irish accepted that leadership in the same way the English did and a Norman Crown ruled Ireland and England. I agree getting on for Tudor times the English had become in general absorbed into the Crown and the seat of power had become England though even today the English aristocracy is noted for its lineages stretching back to Norman times although new money from Yeoman and industrial wealth has diluted that. My contention is that blaming 'the English' is a rather popular pastime and calling Ireland a colony of England from over 700 years ago is part of that popular denigration of the English. History is far more complicated and nuanced than the simplistic 'hate' versions. A Colony as you described requires colonialization by the power base country but Ireland was not colonised by the English it was colonised, certainly at the time you refer to, by Normans. we have been over this now a number of times. In the original treaty of Windsor , the king of England and the English are mentioned twelve times .No one is blaming your wife today , nor is anyone blaming ranulph the 12th century saxon in his mud hut. The point is , ireland is an English colony because the king of England , not the king of anywhere else , invaded ireland and made the Irish swear fealty to the English crown. not the crown of normandy , Anjou or anywhere else. Many of the soldiers were lowly English men at arms, and the English king began the colonisation of ireland from that point not just with an anglo Norman elite , but with lowly English men as well. Even if you dont accept this , we have many other examples to pick from as I said.Henry the 8th declaring himself king of ireland. The subsequent abolishing of the old Gaelic titles and English titles being bestowed on those who swore fealty. The colonisation and plantation of ireland over centuries . English colonists from Nottinghamshire praising then Munster colony in 1590. So on and so forth. Ireland was an English colony , and so far , despite your desperate attempts to divert , you still haven't proved otherwise. Interesting fact, by DNA testing you can tell if you are part Irish or part English, but otherwise you can tell if you are Northern or Southern European. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 31, 2024 8:55:08 GMT
we have been over this now a number of times. In the original treaty of Windsor , the king of England and the English are mentioned twelve times .No one is blaming your wife today , nor is anyone blaming ranulph the 12th century saxon in his mud hut. The point is , ireland is an English colony because the king of England , not the king of anywhere else , invaded ireland and made the Irish swear fealty to the English crown. not the crown of normandy , Anjou or anywhere else. Many of the soldiers were lowly English men at arms, and the English king began the colonisation of ireland from that point not just with an anglo Norman elite , but with lowly English men as well. Even if you dont accept this , we have many other examples to pick from as I said.Henry the 8th declaring himself king of ireland. The subsequent abolishing of the old Gaelic titles and English titles being bestowed on those who swore fealty. The colonisation and plantation of ireland over centuries . English colonists from Nottinghamshire praising then Munster colony in 1590. So on and so forth. Ireland was an English colony , and so far , despite your desperate attempts to divert , you still haven't proved otherwise. Interesting fact, by DNA testing you can tell if you are part Irish or part English, but otherwise you can tell if you are Northern or Southern European. im one third Irish , and two thirds Scottish apparently sheepwash. |
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