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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 14, 2024 19:07:35 GMT
Nothing whatsoever. But you appear to believe that when one group of foreigners drowns in the channel it's because the EU 'allows' it to happen but you don't seem ready to believe that when a different group die in a coach crash in Italy that is also something the EU has 'allowed' to happen. Not very rational is it. Well the EU are responsible for policing their borders - they even have a whole department to deal with that.  Actually not. Individual member states are responsible for policing their own borders. Frontex's role is to support their efforts if they are a member of the Schengen area, but only insofar as a member state calls for such support.
Like many Brexiteers you assume that the EU (the organisation not the member states) has powers that it simply does not have.
Immigration, asylum and citizenship remain the prerogative of individual member states even though that doesn't really make much sense.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 14, 2024 22:45:07 GMT
Well the EU are responsible for policing their borders - they even have a whole department to deal with that. Actually not. Individual member states are responsible for policing their own borders. Frontex's role is to support their efforts if they are a member of the Schengen area, but only insofar as a member state calls for such support.
Like many Brexiteers you assume that the EU (the organisation not the member states) has powers that it simply does not have.
Immigration, asylum and citizenship remain the prerogative of individual member states even though that doesn't really make much sense.
The last time I looked France was in Schengen. Individual States have to comply with EU policy and regulations on border control - The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union recognises the EU’s powers to frame a common policy on external border control and Article 77 gives the EU a role in management of policy. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 14, 2024 22:53:43 GMT
Well the EU are responsible for policing their borders - they even have a whole department to deal with that. The EU are openly laughing at the UK because they still regard the UK as the 28th state. I can see Macron and his EU cronies quietly sniggering as they ignore hundreds of thousands of illegals who openly drag dinghies down French beaches in full view of the authorities. Frontex - EU Agency for the Management of External Borders, lol, are clearly incompetent. |
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Post by sheepy on Jan 15, 2024 7:48:31 GMT
It seems you and everyone else is up shit creek Red, the EU have no intention of stopping it and the UK government couldn't run a piss up in a brewery if they tried.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 15, 2024 11:12:37 GMT
The last time I looked France was in Schengen. Individual States have to comply with EU policy and regulations on border control - The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union recognises the EU’s powers to frame a common policy on external border control and Article 77 gives the EU a role in management of policy. Article 77 is 'aspirational', it describes possible measures for physical control of external borders that the Council (not the Commission) may introduce but has not so far chosen to do so except with respect to internal movement (as implemented in the Schengen Agreement). It has no relevance for immigration, asylum and citizenship all of which, as already stated, remain the exclusive prerogative of member states. If France, for example decided to admit the entire population of Tunisia, the EU would have no powers to prevent, just as it did not either when the UK during its membership elected to admit millions from the sub-continent and Sub-Saharan Africa.
The EU, as an entity, is quite toothless when it comes to such matters. It is not even empowered to place meaningful sanctions on Schengen border states such as Greece and Italy who do not fulfil their obligations to secure the external border.
I have long argued that the EU needs greater powers in this area.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 15, 2024 15:17:21 GMT
It seems you and everyone else is up shit creek Red, the EU have no intention of stopping it and the UK government couldn't run a piss up in a brewery if they tried. I agree. Vote Reform UK. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 15, 2024 15:27:49 GMT
The last time I looked France was in Schengen. Individual States have to comply with EU policy and regulations on border control - The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union recognises the EU’s powers to frame a common policy on external border control and Article 77 gives the EU a role in management of policy. Article 77 is 'aspirational', it describes possible measures for physical control of external borders that the Council (not the Commission) may introduce but has not so far chosen to do so except with respect to internal movement (as implemented in the Schengen Agreement). It has no relevance for immigration, asylum and citizenship all of which, as already stated, remain the exclusive prerogative of member states. If France, for example decided to admit the entire population of Tunisia, the EU would have no powers to prevent, just as it did not either when the UK during its membership elected to admit millions from the sub-continent and Sub-Saharan Africa.
The EU, as an entity, is quite toothless when it comes to such matters. It is not even empowered to place meaningful sanctions on Schengen border states such as Greece and Italy who do not fulfil their obligations to secure the external border.
I have long argued that the EU needs greater powers in this area.
Dan, are you aware that the EU on their eastern border have erected 20ft high anti immigrant fences to keep immigrants out, which are patrolled by armed guards. On the EU southern border they have built secure immigrant detention centres, and in the Med the EU have physically turned boats around and returned them to Libya. The casual observer may come to the conclusion that the EU are actively stopping immigrants entering the bloc, but once they're in, the EU turn a blind eye as hundreds of thousands of them are encouraged to cross the channel. Double standards? |
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Post by sandypine on Jan 15, 2024 15:43:16 GMT
Nothing whatsoever. But you appear to believe that when one group of foreigners drowns in the channel it's because the EU 'allows' it to happen but you don't seem ready to believe that when a different group die in a coach crash in Italy that is also something the EU has 'allowed' to happen. Not very rational is it. The coach crash was operating within all the confines of the law in France/EU and therefore France/EU are not to blame unless negligence is shown on the part of any agency in their control. The boatload of migrants were people acting outside all the French/EU laws and such people have been breaching those laws continuously on arrival, are known by French/EU authorities to be in breach of French/EU law and are neither controlled nor apprehended as they travel hundreds of miles, are known to travel hundreds of miles and are known to be waiting for travel to the UK and are residing in France/EU against the laws of both.The French/EU have the power to stop most of the boats leaving by dealing with illegals in their territory but they do not and so tacitly allow what happens. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 15, 2024 18:19:38 GMT
The last time I looked France was in Schengen. Individual States have to comply with EU policy and regulations on border control - The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union recognises the EU’s powers to frame a common policy on external border control and Article 77 gives the EU a role in management of policy. Article 77 is 'aspirational', it describes possible measures for physical control of external borders that the Council (not the Commission) may introduce but has not so far chosen to do so except with respect to internal movement (as implemented in the Schengen Agreement). It has no relevance for immigration, asylum and citizenship all of which, as already stated, remain the exclusive prerogative of member states. If France, for example decided to admit the entire population of Tunisia, the EU would have no powers to prevent, just as it did not either when the UK during its membership elected to admit millions from the sub-continent and Sub-Saharan Africa.
The EU, as an entity, is quite toothless when it comes to such matters. It is not even empowered to place meaningful sanctions on Schengen border states such as Greece and Italy who do not fulfil their obligations to secure the external border.
I have long argued that the EU needs greater powers in this area.
I dont think it is as toothless as you make out... |
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 15, 2024 23:48:52 GMT
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 15, 2024 23:57:28 GMT
I read the headline and my first thought was Oh Boy those french are gonna be SO pissed the boat didn’t make it far enough to let them blame the RNLI
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 15, 2024 23:58:53 GMT
ah. I spoke too soon. Merde |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 16, 2024 8:19:15 GMT
Of course he's completely correct. The magnetic attraction of the UK's 'pull factors' for third-world migrants is very well known and it's undeniable that they exist because of policy decisions made by successive governments.
PS the government announced today increases in asylum support payments for pregnant women and children. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 17, 2024 15:28:59 GMT
Of course he's completely correct. The magnetic attraction of the UK's 'pull factors' for third-world migrants is very well known and it's undeniable that they exist because of policy decisions made by successive governments.
PS the government announced today increases in asylum support payments for pregnant women and children. It seems obvious the French authorities have no control over their own borders, when it suits. It seems equally obvious you choose to ignore the glaringly obvious. Quelle surprise. |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 17, 2024 15:40:09 GMT
In his zeal to land one on the hated unelected dictators in Brussels I think RR is garbling reports of two completely separate incidents: 1. A boat capsized near the French coast with four dead and the survivors taken to Calais and Boulogne. 2. A different boat was intercepted somewhere in the Channel and its occupants brought to England on a Border Force vessel.
Said dictators had of course nothing to do with either.
The people smugglers operate across the EU.
The EU Schengen zone makes it easy.
The EU and the French in particular have no enthusiasm for stopping them.
The deaths of thousands each year keep happening.
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