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Post by Bentley on Jan 16, 2024 15:16:48 GMT
If Nigel clambers down off the fence and stands for Clacton with a good chance of winning and Reform get their act together with some good candidates and a sensible manifesto I think the results could be catastrophic for the Tories and less than anticipated for Labour. Labour seem to be in the running for a majority which is bad, but also without a coherent or proper opposition, whichever way you look at it we need Reform to do well, if only to have a vocal opposition. True. If Reform do well it might , just might be a real threat after the Identity politics party has had a term . Trouble is if it doesn’t . Lefties will have another ten years of indoctrination and gas lighting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2024 16:10:19 GMT
Has long were receiving Refugees seeking Asylum yes . I have to say lefty , you are doing a one man sterling job of encouraging people not to vote labour.................. Neither you nor I are fans of Labour currently. However, the sheeple of England and Wales seem so pissed off with the Tories that they seem minded to vote for whomever can defeat them wherever they live on the assumption that anything must be better. In lots of places this vote will go to Labour. North of the border - and correct me if I am wrong because I am seeing this from afar - recent corruption scandals and the departure of the popular Nicola Sturgeon seem to have damaged the SNP, causing some to look for an alternative anti-Tory vote. There is the danger of Labour gaining ground at the expense mostly of the SNP, merely by virtue of the fact that they are not the SNP or the Tories. In other words an anti-incumbency vote rather than any positive support for Labour. The sheeple throughout these islands are simple folk when it comes to politics. When they turn decisively against something or someone they tend to vote for whoever is best placed to defeat them, without actually thinking what it is they are supporting. I expect Labour gains in Scotland at the expense of the SNP, and a Tory collapse and Labour landslide south of the border. I do not want either of those things to happen but am afraid I suspect that they will. We would also normally expect in this situation for the Lib Dems to make major gains at the expense of the Tories wherever they are the main challengers as they often are here in South West England. But a wild card has been thrown into the pack in regards them. Their leader Ed Davey has been exposed as up to his neck in it in the subpostmasters scandal, having decisively sided with the post office against them. A former subpostmaster is planning to stand against him in his own constituency on that very issue. This as an issue which resonates with the public right now might blow over or it might not. But it has the potential to damage the Lib Dem leader personally and indirectly the party he leads. This could save a few seats for the Tories or it could boost Labour support in one or two places or both. Or it might have very little impact. I cannot know with any certainty so see this is something of a wild card that the Lib Dems must surely be crapping their pants over.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 16, 2024 16:20:34 GMT
I have to say lefty , you are doing a one man sterling job of encouraging people not to vote labour.................. Neither you nor I are fans of Labour currently. However, the sheeple of England and Wales seem so pissed off with the Tories that they seem minded to vote for whomever can defeat them wherever they live on the assumption that anything must be better. In lots of places this vote will go to Labour. North of the border - and correct me if I am wrong because I am seeing this from afar - recent corruption scandals and the departure of the popular Nicola Sturgeon seem to have damaged the SNP, causing some to look for an alternative anti-Tory vote. There is the danger of Labour gaining ground at the expense mostly of the SNP, merely by virtue of the fact that they are not the SNP or the Tories. In other words an anti-incumbency vote rather than any positive support for Labour. The sheeple throughout these islands are simple folk when it comes to politics. When they turn decisively against something or someone they tend to vote for whoever is best placed to defeat them, without actually thinking what it is they are supporting. I expect Labour gains in Scotland at the expense of the SNP, and a Tory collapse and Labour landslide south of the border. I do not want either of those things to happen but am afraid I suspect that they will. We would also normally expect in this situation for the Lib Dems to make major gains at the expense of the Tories wherever they are the main challengers as they often are here in South West England. But a wild card has been thrown into the pack in regards them. Their leader Ed Davey has been exposed as up to his neck in it in the subpostmasters scandal, having decisively sided with the post office against them. A former subpostmaster is planning to stand against him in his own constituency on that very issue. This as an issue which resonates with the public right now might blow over or it might not. But it has the potential to damage the Lib Dem leader personally and indirectly the party he leads. This could save a few seats for the Tories or it could boost Labour support in one or two places or both. Or it might have very little impact. I cannot know with any certainty so see this is something of a wild card that the Lib Dems must surely be crapping their pants over. Good summary. Right now I don't think that the sheeple actively favour any party - they are all unpopular. I suspect a Labour win on a record low turnout, with the Tories losing votes to Reform and the Lib Dems treading water, if they're lucky. Overall, I think it's essential for Reform to do well for any meaningful democracy to survive.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2024 17:04:56 GMT
Neither you nor I are fans of Labour currently. However, the sheeple of England and Wales seem so pissed off with the Tories that they seem minded to vote for whomever can defeat them wherever they live on the assumption that anything must be better. In lots of places this vote will go to Labour. North of the border - and correct me if I am wrong because I am seeing this from afar - recent corruption scandals and the departure of the popular Nicola Sturgeon seem to have damaged the SNP, causing some to look for an alternative anti-Tory vote. There is the danger of Labour gaining ground at the expense mostly of the SNP, merely by virtue of the fact that they are not the SNP or the Tories. In other words an anti-incumbency vote rather than any positive support for Labour. The sheeple throughout these islands are simple folk when it comes to politics. When they turn decisively against something or someone they tend to vote for whoever is best placed to defeat them, without actually thinking what it is they are supporting. I expect Labour gains in Scotland at the expense of the SNP, and a Tory collapse and Labour landslide south of the border. I do not want either of those things to happen but am afraid I suspect that they will. We would also normally expect in this situation for the Lib Dems to make major gains at the expense of the Tories wherever they are the main challengers as they often are here in South West England. But a wild card has been thrown into the pack in regards them. Their leader Ed Davey has been exposed as up to his neck in it in the subpostmasters scandal, having decisively sided with the post office against them. A former subpostmaster is planning to stand against him in his own constituency on that very issue. This as an issue which resonates with the public right now might blow over or it might not. But it has the potential to damage the Lib Dem leader personally and indirectly the party he leads. This could save a few seats for the Tories or it could boost Labour support in one or two places or both. Or it might have very little impact. I cannot know with any certainty so see this is something of a wild card that the Lib Dems must surely be crapping their pants over. Good summary. Right now I don't think that the sheeple actively favour any party - they are all unpopular. I suspect a Labour win on a record low turnout, with the Tories losing votes to Reform and the Lib Dems treading water, if they're lucky. Overall, I think it's essential for Reform to do well for any meaningful democracy to survive. Reform essentially has the same problem that we on the left have. No matter how many votes we get under FPTP we are pretty much guaranteed not to get any seats or at best one or two. So nothing changes. The more votes Reform get the more damage they do to the Tories without gaining any or many seats themselves. Many more people who might otherwise vote Reform or for a candidate of the left will not do so because of the inherent likelihood of their vote being wasted, an assumption which of course becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. I personally know left wingers who detest Starmer and those in charge of Labour yet are planning to vote Labour anyway as the only party that can beat the Tories. Hence the FPTP stitch up guarantees that nothing significant will ever change, people feeling compelled to try and make their votes count within the system to be heard at all. Until or unless there is a mass movement among the people not simply to stop bothering but to actually go out there and vote for anyone except the Tories or Labour, nothing will ever change I fear. Because they do not fear us not voting at all. What they fear is the distant prospect of us all en masse voting for anyone but them. Us doing so is the only way we will get real change I fear.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 16, 2024 17:08:12 GMT
Are you taking the mick out of the dying? they need to have it explained to them that crossing the english channel in search of a better life carries a significant risk of death. The picture currently painted is far too rosy. Not least thanks to the welcome people like you want hand on a golden plate to any who want to come here for any reason.
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Post by thomas on Jan 16, 2024 17:54:35 GMT
After Sunak I didn't think it was possible to get worse. I also cannot think of a single reason why anyone from a working class background would support Labour. Still, at the end of the day Labour is only the media establishment's vote, and that has been known to cause a revolt in the past.
The insincerity of Sunak and Starmer is like beacon shining out for all to see. Much will depend on how the media play out the election reporting although we can be pretty sure they will be generally hostile to Reform and GB News. It's not just Sunak and starmer though sandy is it? Something weird is going on across the politics of the western world. In the yookay , we have political parties that are different in policy and action from what they say on the label. If you want Scottish independence , you wouldn't vote snp would you? At best they are a devolutionist party. If you are a socialist , you wouldn't vote starmers new labour ? likewise a conservative , you wouldn't vote sunaks tories. It's not just here , there is mass anger and resentment across the European continent , from Ireland in the west , to the Netherlands , Germany Italy all the way over to Greece. ?We seem to have many political parties at the forefront of politics who are at best nothing more than globalist centrist liberals masquerading as serious independence , socialist or conservative parties. Barely a fag paper difference in policy between them . What is actually going on ? They appear to be representing outside interests , instead of the interests of their countries and voting bases . As I said , we are headed for a bumpy ride.
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Post by thomas on Jan 16, 2024 18:09:39 GMT
I have to say lefty , you are doing a one man sterling job of encouraging people not to vote labour.................. Neither you nor I are fans of Labour currently. However, the sheeple of England and Wales seem so pissed off with the Tories that they seem minded to vote for whomever can defeat them wherever they live on the assumption that anything must be better. In lots of places this vote will go to Labour. North of the border - and correct me if I am wrong because I am seeing this from afar - recent corruption scandals and the departure of the popular Nicola Sturgeon seem to have damaged the SNP, causing some to look for an alternative anti-Tory vote. There is the danger of Labour gaining ground at the expense mostly of the SNP, merely by virtue of the fact that they are not the SNP or the Tories. In other words an anti-incumbency vote rather than any positive support for Labour. The sheeple throughout these islands are simple folk when it comes to politics. When they turn decisively against something or someone they tend to vote for whoever is best placed to defeat them, without actually thinking what it is they are supporting. I expect Labour gains in Scotland at the expense of the SNP, and a Tory collapse and Labour landslide south of the border. I do not want either of those things to happen but am afraid I suspect that they will. We would also normally expect in this situation for the Lib Dems to make major gains at the expense of the Tories wherever they are the main challengers as they often are here in South West England. But a wild card has been thrown into the pack in regards them. Their leader Ed Davey has been exposed as up to his neck in it in the subpostmasters scandal, having decisively sided with the post office against them. A former subpostmaster is planning to stand against him in his own constituency on that very issue. This as an issue which resonates with the public right now might blow over or it might not. But it has the potential to damage the Lib Dem leader personally and indirectly the party he leads. This could save a few seats for the Tories or it could boost Labour support in one or two places or both. Or it might have very little impact. I cannot know with any certainty so see this is something of a wild card that the Lib Dems must surely be crapping their pants over. Perhaps this is best another time for the Scottish threads Steve , but as quickly as I can , we are trying to rake over the coals of Nicola sturgeons first ministership and leader of the indy movement to see what went wrong. The rot started setting in a few years after she took power , and the snps best days were the years from 2007 to 2014. So I don't think its sturgeon's departure as such , more the damage and inactivity sturgeon did in her time in power. This might be an interesting read for you . im not sure its about the anti tory vote in Scotland. I think you are letting English politics cloud your view. The snp currently are that much of an empty vessel full of student politicians , hamstrung by the greens , they are trying to sell the anti tory vote to the Scottish electorate , as the only party in Scotland that can kick out the tories. This doesn't make much sense. The tories are going to take a pasting anyway , whatever happens in Scotland , they don't care , the battle ground will be England. We could have (unlikely) the situation half the Scottish public sit out the British election , as they won't vote snp and can't stomach the British parties , and labour walk into power on a tiny fraction of the vote. At last look , I think labour were being predicted to take some twenty seats in Scotland. polling is so over the place , with low snp and tory responses and shy voters refusing to say what they are going to do that at the moment we don't know. I would be surprised if starmer takes a lot of Scottish votes , more likely he will win seats off the back of severe apathy. Remember , in Scotland Steve , labour can't seriously push themselves as the anti tory vote when they are in coalition in Scottish councils with the tories. Its a mess Steve , and its a mess not just in Scotland and England , but across the western world.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 16, 2024 19:23:21 GMT
Reform essentially has the same problem that we on the left have. No matter how many votes we get under FPTP we are pretty much guaranteed not to get any seats or at best one or two. So nothing changes. The more votes Reform get the more damage they do to the Tories without gaining any or many seats themselves. Many more people who might otherwise vote Reform or for a candidate of the left will not do so because of the inherent likelihood of their vote being wasted, an assumption which of course becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. I personally know left wingers who detest Starmer and those in charge of Labour yet are planning to vote Labour anyway as the only party that can beat the Tories. Hence the FPTP stitch up guarantees that nothing significant will ever change, people feeling compelled to try and make their votes count within the system to be heard at all. Until or unless there is a mass movement among the people not simply to stop bothering but to actually go out there and vote for anyone except the Tories or Labour, nothing will ever change I fear. Because they do not fear us not voting at all. What they fear is the distant prospect of us all en masse voting for anyone but them. Us doing so is the only way we will get real change I fear. Absolutely. But this time around I will be voting Reform. There is no point in my voting Conservative simply to keep Labour out when they are effectively the same establishment shills. And, regardless of outcome, at least I'll know that I voted against the ensuing establishment shit show.
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Post by see2 on Jan 16, 2024 22:24:00 GMT
Neither you nor I are fans of Labour currently. However, the sheeple of England and Wales seem so pissed off with the Tories that they seem minded to vote for whomever can defeat them wherever they live on the assumption that anything must be better. In lots of places this vote will go to Labour. North of the border - and correct me if I am wrong because I am seeing this from afar - recent corruption scandals and the departure of the popular Nicola Sturgeon seem to have damaged the SNP, causing some to look for an alternative anti-Tory vote. There is the danger of Labour gaining ground at the expense mostly of the SNP, merely by virtue of the fact that they are not the SNP or the Tories. In other words an anti-incumbency vote rather than any positive support for Labour. The sheeple throughout these islands are simple folk when it comes to politics. When they turn decisively against something or someone they tend to vote for whoever is best placed to defeat them, without actually thinking what it is they are supporting. I expect Labour gains in Scotland at the expense of the SNP, and a Tory collapse and Labour landslide south of the border. I do not want either of those things to happen but am afraid I suspect that they will. We would also normally expect in this situation for the Lib Dems to make major gains at the expense of the Tories wherever they are the main challengers as they often are here in South West England. But a wild card has been thrown into the pack in regards them. Their leader Ed Davey has been exposed as up to his neck in it in the subpostmasters scandal, having decisively sided with the post office against them. A former subpostmaster is planning to stand against him in his own constituency on that very issue. This as an issue which resonates with the public right now might blow over or it might not. But it has the potential to damage the Lib Dem leader personally and indirectly the party he leads. This could save a few seats for the Tories or it could boost Labour support in one or two places or both. Or it might have very little impact. I cannot know with any certainty so see this is something of a wild card that the Lib Dems must surely be crapping their pants over. Good summary. Right now I don't think that the sheeple actively favour any party - they are all unpopular. I suspect a Labour win on a record low turnout, with the Tories losing votes to Reform and the Lib Dems treading water, if they're lucky. Overall, I think it's essential for Reform to do well for any meaningful democracy to survive. Ha ha ha, bias supported by bias, worthy comments by snowflakes and extreme thinkers.
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Post by Totheleft on Jan 17, 2024 8:16:48 GMT
Are you taking the mick out of the dying? they need to have it explained to them that crossing the english channel in search of a better life carries a significant risk of death. The picture currently painted is far too rosy. Not least thanks to the welcome people like you want hand on a golden plate to any who want to come here for any reason. Don't you think they already know the risk of crossing the Chanel and not being welcome by people like you but still come .
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Post by jonksy on Jan 17, 2024 8:22:02 GMT
they need to have it explained to them that crossing the english channel in search of a better life carries a significant risk of death. The picture currently painted is far too rosy. Not least thanks to the welcome people like you want hand on a golden plate to any who want to come here for any reason. Don't you think they already know the risk of crossing the Chanel and not being welcome by people like you but still come . It s ther choice lefty old bean. So stop the fucking faux indignation if they perish.
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Post by Totheleft on Jan 17, 2024 8:27:11 GMT
Don't you think they already know the risk of crossing the Chanel and not being welcome by people like you but still come . It s ther choice lefty old bean. So stop the fucking faux indignation if they perish. Of course its there Choice lots of people make Choices that can cause there death in the job they do but they still choose the job.
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Post by Totheleft on Jan 17, 2024 8:32:55 GMT
I have to say lefty , you are doing a one man sterling job of encouraging people not to vote labour.................. Neither you nor I are fans of Labour currently. However, the sheeple of England and Wales seem so pissed off with the Tories that they seem minded to vote for whomever can defeat them wherever they live on the assumption that anything must be better. In lots of places this vote will go to Labour. North of the border - and correct me if I am wrong because I am seeing this from afar - recent corruption scandals and the departure of the popular Nicola Sturgeon seem to have damaged the SNP, causing some to look for an alternative anti-Tory vote. There is the danger of Labour gaining ground at the expense mostly of the SNP, merely by virtue of the fact that they are not the SNP or the Tories. In other words an anti-incumbency vote rather than any positive support for Labour. The sheeple throughout these islands are simple folk when it comes to politics. When they turn decisively against something or someone they tend to vote for whoever is best placed to defeat them, without actually thinking what it is they are supporting. I expect Labour gains in Scotland at the expense of the SNP, and a Tory collapse and Labour landslide south of the border. I do not want either of those things to happen but am afraid I suspect that they will. We would also normally expect in this situation for the Lib Dems to make major gains at the expense of the Tories wherever they are the main challengers as they often are here in South West England. But a wild card has been thrown into the pack in regards them. Their leader Ed Davey has been exposed as up to his neck in it in the subpostmasters scandal, having decisively sided with the post office against them. A former subpostmaster is planning to stand against him in his own constituency on that very issue. This as an issue which resonates with the public right now might blow over or it might not. But it has the potential to damage the Lib Dem leader personally and indirectly the party he leads. This could save a few seats for the Tories or it could boost Labour support in one or two places or both. Or it might have very little impact. I cannot know with any certainty so see this is something of a wild card that the Lib Dems must surely be crapping their pants over. Neither you nor I are fans of Labour currently Just Shows how you on the Far left have things in common with the enemy of the true left the right wingers
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Post by jonksy on Jan 17, 2024 8:33:02 GMT
It s ther choice lefty old bean. So stop the fucking faux indignation if they perish. Of course its there Choice lots of people make Choices that can cause there death in the job they do but they still choose the job. No comparison as usaul lefty old bean. If the wankers came here but were ushered off to Rawandha rather than a 4 star hotel would they still come then?
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Post by Totheleft on Jan 17, 2024 8:42:20 GMT
Good summary. Right now I don't think that the sheeple actively favour any party - they are all unpopular. I suspect a Labour win on a record low turnout, with the Tories losing votes to Reform and the Lib Dems treading water, if they're lucky. Overall, I think it's essential for Reform to do well for any meaningful democracy to survive. Reform essentially has the same problem that we on the left have. No matter how many votes we get under FPTP we are pretty much guaranteed not to get any seats or at best one or two. So nothing changes. The more votes Reform get the more damage they do to the Tories without gaining any or many seats themselves. Many more people who might otherwise vote Reform or for a candidate of the left will not do so because of the inherent likelihood of their vote being wasted, an assumption which of course becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. I personally know left wingers who detest Starmer and those in charge of Labour yet are planning to vote Labour anyway as the only party that can beat the Tories. Hence the FPTP stitch up guarantees that nothing significant will ever change, people feeling compelled to try and make their votes count within the system to be heard at all. Until or unless there is a mass movement among the people not simply to stop bothering but to actually go out there and vote for anyone except the Tories or Labour, nothing will ever change I fear. Because they do not fear us not voting at all. What they fear is the distant prospect of us all en masse voting for anyone but them. Us doing so is the only way we will get real change I fear. Funny how you losers moan about the No matter how many votes we get under FPTP system . That keeps the loony Element out of the house of Commons. So Steve you be happy for the far Right BMP or whatever name they go under have a repercentive in the HOC and you call yourself true Labour haha
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