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Post by zanygame on Dec 29, 2023 13:29:59 GMT
Flogging a dead horse Zany. You won't have any joy with the neo-Luddites on here. They're ideologically opposed to anything which might have even the slightest whiff of Brussels about it. I live in hope of at least letting people know about how they work. I appreciate the Jonsky's of this world will only ever cut and paste without reading, but some on here are still marginally interested in debate.
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Post by Bentley on Dec 29, 2023 13:37:21 GMT
My son in law installed air conditioners primarily for cooling the house in summer but these can be used as heaters too. The heat pump is reasonably quiet and apparently they throw out quite a lot of heat . I’ll be interested to see how they perform over the next few years .
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Post by zanygame on Dec 29, 2023 13:40:46 GMT
I posted a source some weeks detailing heat pump installations across Europe and the UK was at the bottom of the pile by a very wide margin. The top slots were taken by Scandinavian countries where, according to the received wisdom here, they're not supposed to work. rubbish. The majority of heat pumps used in Scandinavia are air to air heat pumps , while in European countries like ze fatherland and Poland , they are air to water heat pumps , so you aren't talking like for like . This. It supports what I keep saying.
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Post by thomas on Dec 29, 2023 13:41:05 GMT
not sure where you are getting your figures from zany , as despite asking for evidence based replies , you offer no link to back up your assertion that heat pump sales have risen. From most articles I have read , the negatives appear to outweigh the positives , and sales are actually falling. The public across Europe including in the yookay don't appear to be on board. here's another link....... Heat pump sales have fallen this year, causing the sector to call for strong policy support in the form of ambitious targets and a comprehensive action plan. Manufacturers have also invested over 7 billion euros in production capacity and training of installers, building on the key role given to heat pumps in the Green Deal, Fit for 55°C package, and in REPowerEU.www.renewableenergymagazine.com/miscellaneous/eu-commission-postpones-heat-pump-plan-until-20231220Yes Thomas. I said: they had fallen this year. Sales rose by nearly 100% in 2021. Another nearly 40% in 2022 and in this terrible year (Cost of living crises) still sold 18,000 in the first half of 2023. so in short the headline for the OP is rather disingenuous , because you are cherry picking data that shows a mass rise in sales from a practically non existent base , before the trend in the latter half of this year in something like ten different european countries shows a fairly substantial decline ? Reports so far are showing most if not all countries in Europe , and even the supranational blocs like the EU are going to miss their net zero targets. Why do you think this is zany? Are you onboard with Dan dare , that its all down to the stupid public being brainwashed , or could it be the economics don't add up?
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Post by zanygame on Dec 29, 2023 13:42:22 GMT
The Luddites are those who sound off about things they have no personal experience of and which they know almost nothing about apart from what they pick up from party propaganda. it would be helpful Adolf , if you could address directly , using the quote tags , who you are talking to instead of cluttering threads with hand grenades and running away. Apart from the fact Dans comment was not aimed at a particular post, but a general observation.
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Post by zanygame on Dec 29, 2023 13:45:43 GMT
rubbish. The majority of heat pumps used in Scandinavia are air to air heat pumps , while in European countries like ze fatherland and Poland , they are air to water heat pumps , so you aren't talking like for like . What's the difference? They both work on the same principles and both provide viable alternatives to conventional space heating.
We have an air-to-water heat pump driving a six-zone radiant heat system and it works perfectly fine. The same systems provides DHW.
The big problem as I see it is that heat pumps find it relatively easy to raise air temperature by up to 40 degrees. That is to say minus 6°C outside to plus 25°C inside. Where they struggle is raising to by 70 degrees to heat your hot water and radiators. Hence the Scandi ones work well at much lower temperatures.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2023 13:52:27 GMT
it would be helpful Adolf , if you could address directly , using the quote tags , who you are talking to instead of cluttering threads with hand grenades and running away. Apart from the fact Dans comment was not aimed at a particular post, but a general observation. It's ironic that a ScotNat would be smearing Dan Dare with Adolf taunts, especially when he has more in common with Dan's pro-EU stance than a lot of other people on the forum (perhaps Dan is genuine and the other is just using it because England voted differently?). But since the board now appears to support smearing members on Mind Zone, so long as it appeases a certain audience, then this is now the way of things. It's a shame, because now people won't know where they stand on this area of the forum.
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Post by thomas on Dec 29, 2023 13:54:31 GMT
it would be helpful Adolf , if you could address directly , using the quote tags , who you are talking to instead of cluttering threads with hand grenades and running away. Apart from the fact Dans comment was not aimed at a particular post, but a general observation. ...but who is it aimed at? Why is it a general observation? Most folk I come across online and in the real world are interested in new technology, support looking after their environment , and the general well being of the planet. People aren't stupid though. Where it all falls down is when out of touch politicians try and pass the buck , and the cost , onto the masses .
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Post by bancroft on Dec 29, 2023 13:56:18 GMT
The Luddites are those who sound off about things they have no personal experience of and which they know almost nothing about apart from what they pick up from party propaganda. That is interesting as in theory they are colder than us though many have second homes for the warmer months and here they may work fine. Would be interesting to know what proportion of Swedes have have heat exchangers on their main residence.
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Post by thomas on Dec 29, 2023 13:58:25 GMT
Apart from the fact Dans comment was not aimed at a particular post, but a general observation. It's ironic that a ScotNat would be smearing Dan Dare with Adolf taunts, especially when he has more in common with Dan's pro-EU stance than a lot of other people on the forum (perhaps Dan is genuine and the other is just using it because England voted differently?). But since the board now appears to support smearing members on Mind Zone, so long as it appeases a certain audience, then this is now the way of things. It's a shame, because now people won't know where they stand on this area of the forum. The adolf comment was tongue in cheek chookie regarding dans over the top infatuation about brown people on various threads while implying people need to keep an open mind in this. Even you and I might just possibly once in a blue moon have something marginally in common. It doesn't mean I agree with 99.9 per cent of what you say. stop whinging , address the topic , or stop trolling threads hen.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 29, 2023 14:06:40 GMT
They nearly doubled in 2021 and rose again by nearly 40% in 2022. Even in this year from hell another 18,000 were installed in the first half of 2023. But we fall far behind other countries, because of our ignorance on how they work and the terrible clickbait uneducated Brits seem to rely on. Your evidence based replies please. The UK tax payers are subsidising these non working lemons. That's why they are not as good as if they had to compete out in the business jungle. Animals reared in captivity end up dead when released into the jungle.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 29, 2023 14:20:11 GMT
I posted a source some weeks detailing heat pump installations across Europe and the UK was at the bottom of the pile by a very wide margin. The top slots were taken by Scandinavian countries where, according to the received wisdom here, they're not supposed to work. They have a lot of hydropower up that way and leccy is some of the highest prices. They don't get the same economy of scale since the population is sparse and leccy does not like long transmission cables, and long gas pipes are pretty expensive as well. With such high energy costs you would want to squeeze every ounce of efficiency out of your system. Another factor is their economic models are very socialist. The thing is, every country has its own unique set of natural conditions. In China they have a lot of easily accessible coal, so they may want to go down the path of cleaning up the emissions from a coal powered system. Where the people think wrong-think is when they get the idea every county is equal. That's the assumption you make when you start creating these league tables to print in your Guardian newspapers etc. Leave it up to the market and you will find countries will naturally spacialize in certain technologies, so if shopping for hydropower the Norwegians would be your first enquiry.
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Post by zanygame on Dec 29, 2023 14:22:55 GMT
Apart from the fact Dans comment was not aimed at a particular post, but a general observation. ...but who is it aimed at? Why is it a general observation? Most folk I come across online and in the real world are interested in new technology, support looking after their environment , and the general well being of the planet. People aren't stupid though. Where it all falls down is when out of touch politicians try and pass the buck , and the cost , onto the masses . You cannot possibly have missed the knee jerk reactions from people like Jonksy. People who post links to articles they haven't even read and who's only answer to questions is name calling and stereotyping. Those they kill thread after thread with banal comments. "The UK tax payers are subsidising these non working lemons." From a guy who has literally no idea how they work and claimed to have removed them from a new build that didn't have any, and is himself a brick layer, so not sure why they asked him to remove them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2023 14:30:05 GMT
...but who is it aimed at? Why is it a general observation? Most folk I come across online and in the real world are interested in new technology, support looking after their environment , and the general well being of the planet. People aren't stupid though. Where it all falls down is when out of touch politicians try and pass the buck , and the cost , onto the masses . You cannot possibly have missed the knee jerk reactions from people like Jonksy. People who post links to articles they haven't even read and who's only answer to questions is name calling and stereotyping. Those they kill thread after thread with banal comments. "The UK tax payers are subsidising these non working lemons." From a guy who has literally no idea how they work and claimed to have removed them from a new build that didn't have any, and is himself a brick layer, so not sure why they asked him to remove them. Ah, I see you're both into attacking other members on Mind Zone. Silly me for thinking you maybe better than that.
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Post by thomas on Dec 29, 2023 14:30:49 GMT
...but who is it aimed at? Why is it a general observation? Most folk I come across online and in the real world are interested in new technology, support looking after their environment , and the general well being of the planet. People aren't stupid though. Where it all falls down is when out of touch politicians try and pass the buck , and the cost , onto the masses . You cannot possibly have missed the knee jerk reactions from people like Jonksy. People who post links to articles they haven't even read and who's only answer to questions is name calling and stereotyping. Those they kill thread after thread with banal comments. "The UK tax payers are subsidising these non working lemons." From a guy who has literally no idea how they work and claimed to have removed them from a new build that didn't have any, and is himself a brick layer, so not sure why they asked him to remove them. so basically the `generalisation` under discussion is because dan dare is too cowardly to call out jonsky by debating him and telling him why he disagrees with his views? Wow. Thanks for letting me know though zany. Im not sure why people like dan and b4 have to talk about third parties and generalise in their posts on various threads without using the quote tags and addressing directly those who they have issues with. one guy , out of the many who use this forum , or the 65 million inhabiting the yookay. Im sure jonsky will be laughing that dan hangs by his every words. Now that's sorted , perhaps we can get back to why net zero appears unpopular , and heat pump sales are falling off a cliff. Surely they can't all be listening to jonsky.............
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