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Post by happyhornet on Dec 5, 2023 7:11:08 GMT
If they are born and raised in England, speak with an English accent, are culturally English then they are English AFAIC. How can you be English and also an ethnic minority, it seems a strange concept as Lammy suggested he had every right to call himself English but that removes from the English any identity as it is usurped by others. If we did not have the race laws w would not have this problem but we do have the race laws so everyone has to be identifiable in some way, even if they do not want to be. Because as I keep telling you race and nationality are two different things. Look at the England football team, people of different races but all English. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 7:29:43 GMT
The FA doesn't dictate ethnicity.
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 5, 2023 7:39:43 GMT
The FA doesn't dictate ethnicity. And ethnicity doesn't dictate nationality. As I said before, go into a busy pub during an England game at next summer's Euros and shout out at the top of your voice "Jude Bellingham isn't English". See how popular and widely accepted your definition of Englishness is. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 7:47:35 GMT
The legal nationality is British. What some drunks at a bar think is neither here nor there.
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Post by thomas on Dec 5, 2023 8:31:19 GMT
Sorry Tommo, we've both had our say and I have no wish to continue the dialogue down the usual ScotsNat rathole. If you have a burning desire to do so why not start a new thread and let this one run its natural course which in all honesty is about done anyway. fair enough Danny , I accept your surrender. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 5, 2023 8:39:26 GMT
Don't be childish. This is the Mind Zone where such playground antics are prohibited.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 5, 2023 8:50:15 GMT
How can you be English and also an ethnic minority, it seems a strange concept as Lammy suggested he had every right to call himself English but that removes from the English any identity as it is usurped by others. If we did not have the race laws w would not have this problem but we do have the race laws so everyone has to be identifiable in some way, even if they do not want to be. Because as I keep telling you race and nationality are two different things. Look at the England football team, people of different races but all English. Are you sure? |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 5, 2023 8:58:30 GMT
The legal nationality is British. What some drunks at a bar think is neither here nor there. Yes but we're talking about Englishness. Like I said before at some point common sense has to come in to the conversation. I think that my definition makes more common sense and would be more widely accepted than one that requires paper work and presumably laboratory testing. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 5, 2023 9:12:20 GMT
The legal nationality is British. What some drunks at a bar think is neither here nor there. Yes but we're talking about Englishness. That's an ethnic group. There is no legal nationality 'English' |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 5, 2023 9:22:27 GMT
Yes but we're talking about Englishness. That's an ethnic group. There is no legal nationality 'English' But there is a nation of England, which means there is an English nationality. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 5, 2023 11:09:31 GMT
How can you be English and also an ethnic minority, it seems a strange concept as Lammy suggested he had every right to call himself English but that removes from the English any identity as it is usurped by others. If we did not have the race laws w would not have this problem but we do have the race laws so everyone has to be identifiable in some way, even if they do not want to be. Because as I keep telling you race and nationality are two different things. Look at the England football team, people of different races but all English. Of course they are but there is also a German national team full of different races that are not German and you would not call them German. An African does not look like Faf de Clerk he looks like Nelson Mandela. Confusing the issue seems to be a ploy, an Indian does not look like Spike Milligan he looks like Virat Kohli. It seems differences are accentuated when it suits and dispensed with when it does not which is why one ethnicity should not be confused with nationality. To be clear I did not make the race laws but one cannot dodge their existence. |
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Post by dappy on Dec 5, 2023 11:24:17 GMT
Only dipping in and out of this thread, but quite a remarkable statement that the members of the German National football team are not German !!
All this thread is is to exploit the unusual constitutional arrangements of the United Kingdom to create some identity that is only available to white people and then to suggest that that identity has some form of rights. Its amusing to watch if as it has been done many times before getting a little repetitive.
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Post by Orac on Dec 5, 2023 11:38:31 GMT
That's an ethnic group. There is no legal nationality 'English' But there is a nation of England, which means there is an English nationality. I can only really re-iterate. |
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Post by piglet on Dec 5, 2023 11:40:16 GMT
I disagree dappy, the differences are psychological, there are vast differences to how an englishman thinks and an Italian, you can add Russians, Slovenes and Scots to that. et al. One of the main characteristics of the english is manners. Do i have manners?, yes, but i lapse into Italian, sometimes i shout when im not upset, that is so bad in england, the manners i have are learned. Italians dont say please, thankyou, after you etc.
It is normal for the english to remain silent when upset, not rant and rave like the Italians, cursing, vowing, and taking action.......etc. Theirs your racism dappy...only available to white people, manners are not colour centric. Its how your brought up, conditioned. Very few people, children living in Udinese will be brought up with english manners, but its our fault, the white people.
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 5, 2023 11:47:20 GMT
Because as I keep telling you race and nationality are two different things. Look at the England football team, people of different races but all English. Of course they are but there is also a German national team full of different races that are not German and you would not call them German. An African does not look like Faf de Clerk he looks like Nelson Mandela. Confusing the issue seems to be a ploy, an Indian does not look like Spike Milligan he looks like Virat Kohli. It seems differences are accentuated when it suits and dispensed with when it does not which is why one ethnicity should not be confused with nationality. To be clear I did not make the race laws but one cannot dodge their existence. You seem to be repeatedly and I suspect deliberately missing the point that race and nationality are two different things. Faf de Clerk and Nelson Mandela are different races but the same nationality. I really don't know why you're having so much trouble understanding such a simple concept. |
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