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Post by Ripley on Nov 30, 2023 19:36:08 GMT
I have never suggested that the Israelis should be given the need to leave Israel. If you read my prior post, I was refuting the "Israelis have nowhere else to go" mantra that is given in justification of their war objectives. Since fewer than half of the global population of Jews live in Israel, it is a patent falsehood to claim that they have nowhere else to go. They are all over the world, and almost as many live in the US as live in Israel. Just to be crystal clear, at no time did I suggest, nor have I ever suggested, nor would I ever suggest that the Israelis should be made to leave Israel. In fact what I said was that I believe that everyone deserves a homeland. Everyone.You did object to the comment that the Israelis had nowhere to go. That they are all over the world is the basis of my post. Why should they leave their homeland? That is an argument you need to have with someone who is saying that they need to leave their homeland. I am not saying that, and I think I have made that abundantly clear already. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 1, 2023 8:33:32 GMT
You did object to the comment that the Israelis had nowhere to go. That they are all over the world is the basis of my post. Why should they leave their homeland? That is an argument you need to have with someone who is saying that they need to leave their homeland. I am not saying that, and I think I have made that abundantly clear already. I have made it abundantly clear that your reference to the Jews being all over the world, implies that the Jews do have somewhere to go, i.e. outside of Israel. In short, leave your homeland. |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 1, 2023 15:39:10 GMT
That is an argument you need to have with someone who is saying that they need to leave their homeland. I am not saying that, and I think I have made that abundantly clear already. I have made it abundantly clear that your reference to the Jews being all over the world, implies that the Jews do have somewhere to go, i.e. outside of Israel. In short, leave your homeland. It is a fact that there are Jews all over the world. I didn't make that up. But you are misunderstanding my inference. I am NOT saying that they need to leave their homeland. Have I not said repeatedly that everyone deserves a homeland? What I am saying is that they shouldn't use the excuse of having nowhere else to go to justify their war objective. It is a spurious, factually incorrect statement used to justify annihilating the Palestinians, and the same argument could be used by the Palestinians against them. Both sides view this conflict as a fight for their very survival. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 2, 2023 10:52:03 GMT
I have made it abundantly clear that your reference to the Jews being all over the world, implies that the Jews do have somewhere to go, i.e. outside of Israel. In short, leave your homeland. It is a fact that there are Jews all over the world. I didn't make that up. But you are misunderstanding my inference. I am NOT saying that they need to leave their homeland. Have I not said repeatedly that everyone deserves a homeland? What I am saying is that they shouldn't use the excuse of having nowhere else to go to justify their war objective. It is a spurious, factually incorrect statement used to justify annihilating the Palestinians, and the same argument could be used by the Palestinians against them. Both sides view this conflict as a fight for their very survival. Your original sentence had nothing to do with having a homeland, the Homeland part was not in dispute. Your original sentence that I replied to was, "And about half of all Jews don't live in Israel, so it can hardly be said that they have nowhere else to go." full stop. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 2, 2023 11:56:10 GMT
It is a fact that there are Jews all over the world. I didn't make that up. But you are misunderstanding my inference. I am NOT saying that they need to leave their homeland. Have I not said repeatedly that everyone deserves a homeland? What I am saying is that they shouldn't use the excuse of having nowhere else to go to justify their war objective. It is a spurious, factually incorrect statement used to justify annihilating the Palestinians, and the same argument could be used by the Palestinians against them. Both sides view this conflict as a fight for their very survival. Your original sentence had nothing to do with having a homeland, the Homeland part was not in dispute. Your original sentence that I replied to was, "And about half of all Jews don't live in Israel, so it can hardly be said that they have nowhere else to go." full stop. Well by the same token, most Palestinians do not live in the West Bank or Gaza so perhaps they could be removed to solve the problem?.  |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 2, 2023 15:28:11 GMT
It is a fact that there are Jews all over the world. I didn't make that up. But you are misunderstanding my inference. I am NOT saying that they need to leave their homeland. Have I not said repeatedly that everyone deserves a homeland? What I am saying is that they shouldn't use the excuse of having nowhere else to go to justify their war objective. It is a spurious, factually incorrect statement used to justify annihilating the Palestinians, and the same argument could be used by the Palestinians against them. Both sides view this conflict as a fight for their very survival. Your original sentence had nothing to do with having a homeland, the Homeland part was not in dispute. Your original sentence that I replied to was, "And about half of all Jews don't live in Israel, so it can hardly be said that they have nowhere else to go." full stop. I think I am in a better position than you are to know what I mean. I've explained it to you several times to you and I'm now done explaining it. |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 2, 2023 15:37:19 GMT
Your original sentence had nothing to do with having a homeland, the Homeland part was not in dispute. Your original sentence that I replied to was, "And about half of all Jews don't live in Israel, so it can hardly be said that they have nowhere else to go." full stop. Well by the same token, most Palestinians do not live in the West Bank or Gaza so perhaps they could be removed to solve the problem?. Who is suggesting that the Israelis be removed? Here are my recent posts on this subject which make it abundantly clear that that is NOT what I am suggesting, or ever would suggest. I have never suggested that the Israelis should be given the need to leave Israel. If you read my prior post, I was refuting the "Israelis have nowhere else to go" mantra that is given in justification of their war objectives. Since fewer than half of the global population of Jews live in Israel, it is a patent falsehood to claim that they have nowhere else to go. They are all over the world, and almost as many live in the US as live in Israel.
Just to be crystal clear, at no time did I suggest, nor have I ever suggested, nor would I ever suggest that the Israelis should be made to leave Israel. In fact what I said was that I believe that everyone deserves a homeland. Everyone.
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That is an argument you need to have with someone who is saying that they need to leave their homeland.
I am not saying that, and I think I have made that abundantly clear already.
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It is a fact that there are Jews all over the world. I didn't make that up. But you are misunderstanding my inference. I am NOT saying that they need to leave their homeland. Have I not said repeatedly that everyone deserves a homeland?
What I am saying is that they shouldn't use the excuse of having nowhere else to go to justify their war objective. It is a spurious, factually incorrect statement used to justify annihilating the Palestinians, and the same argument could be used by the Palestinians against them. Both sides view this conflict as a fight for their very survival.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2023 10:37:18 GMT
Hamas are terrorists, and in my opinion so are the IDF considering how many thousands of civilians they have now murdered.
Hamas take hostages, in other words they hold people without any reason against their will, but then so does Israel who hold many Palestinians in detention without a reason been given, and without charge, against international law.
Israel IS NOT all fairness and freedom, as some posters would have you believe
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Post by Vinny on Dec 3, 2023 12:54:59 GMT
Distinguish between Israel and the Israeli government. They are not the same.
Likud got in with less than 25% of the vote.
Israelis have the same rights to life and liberty as any nation.
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Post by see2 on Dec 3, 2023 13:03:26 GMT
Your original sentence had nothing to do with having a homeland, the Homeland part was not in dispute. Your original sentence that I replied to was, "And about half of all Jews don't live in Israel, so it can hardly be said that they have nowhere else to go." full stop. I think I am in a better position than you are to know what I mean. I've explained it to you several times to you and I'm now done explaining it. I agree that you are, I just replied to what you actually posted. And think you should acknowledge that. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 3, 2023 13:12:12 GMT
Hamas are terrorists, and in my opinion so are the IDF considering how many thousands of civilians they have now murdered. Hamas take hostages, in other words they hold people without any reason against their will, but then so does Israel who hold many Palestinians in detention without a reason been given, and without charge, against international law. Israel IS NOT all fairness and freedom, as some posters would have you believe Israel is once again fighting for survival. 7/10 was by far, the worst attack by Hamas on Israel. The next attack has the potential to be even worse for Israel because of lessons learnt by Hamas and the Arab world. |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 3, 2023 15:05:34 GMT
I think I am in a better position than you are to know what I mean. I've explained it to you several times to you and I'm now done explaining it. I agree that you are, I just replied to what you actually posted. And think you should acknowledge that. I don't know why you're belabouring this point. I have never disavowed any of my posts. But you seem to believe that I am drawing a conclusion I am not drawing, and I've made that clear too. Page up and see where I reposted my posts to Pacifico. Saying that they have nowhere else to go is used to convince the world that there is no other solution and justify endless carnage. They are arguing that they will always be under threat, that they will never be secure until they eradicate Hamas and Palestinian civilians along with them. They are arguing that they deserve a quality of peace that is 100% unthreatened. What country has that? |
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Post by see2 on Dec 3, 2023 16:37:54 GMT
I agree that you are, I just replied to what you actually posted. And think you should acknowledge that. I don't know why you're belabouring this point. I have never disavowed any of my posts. But you seem to believe that I am drawing a conclusion I am not drawing, and I've made that clear too. Page up and see where I reposted my posts to Pacifico. Saying that they have nowhere else to go is used to convince the world that there is no other solution and justify endless carnage. They are arguing that they will always be under threat, that they will never be secure until they eradicate Hamas and Palestinian civilians along with them. They are arguing that they deserve a quality of peace that is 100% unthreatened. What country has that? I know what your explanation is, I also know the point I replied to. ------ The main aim of the Jews was to have peace in a homeland of their own. The Palestinian Arabs denied them that right. They will be forever under the active threat of attack from Hamas until either Hamas is eliminated or Hamas bury their sole intent of eliminating Israel. Which other peoples have been denied peace and equality IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY for around 1400 years as is the case for the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs? I'm not suggesting that the Arabs should be made to leave Palestine but If they were forced to leave Palestine there are plenty of countries controlled by Arabs where they could go. If the Israelis are forced to leave Israel, as Hamas are determined they will, there is no other Israeli country to go to. I'll leave the last word to you  |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 3, 2023 17:18:42 GMT
I don't know why you're belabouring this point. I have never disavowed any of my posts. But you seem to believe that I am drawing a conclusion I am not drawing, and I've made that clear too. Page up and see where I reposted my posts to Pacifico. Saying that they have nowhere else to go is used to convince the world that there is no other solution and justify endless carnage. They are arguing that they will always be under threat, that they will never be secure until they eradicate Hamas and Palestinian civilians along with them. They are arguing that they deserve a quality of peace that is 100% unthreatened. What country has that? I know what your explanation is, I also know the point I replied to. ------ The main aim of the Jews was to have peace in a homeland of their own. The Palestinian Arabs denied them that right. They will be forever under the active threat of attack from Hamas until either Hamas is eliminated or Hamas bury their sole intent of eliminating Israel. Which other peoples have been denied peace and equality IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY for around 1400 years as is the case for the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs? I'm not suggesting that the Arabs should be made to leave Palestine but If they were forced to leave Palestine there are plenty of countries controlled by Arabs where they could go. If the Israelis are forced to leave Israel, as Hamas are determined they will, there is no other Israeli country to go to. I'll leave the last word to you The history of enmity between these two groups is so dark and deep and generations long that it is completely unrealistic to expect it to disappear when Israel conducts a massacre of record-breaking proportions. Bombing Palestinian civilians and their thousands of innocent children only gives Hamas a recruitment tool with which to cultivate a new generation of terrorists. Both sides here have to learn that it is not possible to sow hatred and reap peace. To suggest that the Palestinians could go elsewhere misses the point. Both sides are adamant about their territorial rights and neither wants to recognise the other's rights. They're at an impasse. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 3, 2023 18:18:52 GMT
I know what your explanation is, I also know the point I replied to. ------ The main aim of the Jews was to have peace in a homeland of their own. The Palestinian Arabs denied them that right. They will be forever under the active threat of attack from Hamas until either Hamas is eliminated or Hamas bury their sole intent of eliminating Israel. Which other peoples have been denied peace and equality IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY for around 1400 years as is the case for the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs? I'm not suggesting that the Arabs should be made to leave Palestine but If they were forced to leave Palestine there are plenty of countries controlled by Arabs where they could go. If the Israelis are forced to leave Israel, as Hamas are determined they will, there is no other Israeli country to go to. I'll leave the last word to you The history of enmity between these two groups is so dark and deep and generations long that it is completely unrealistic to expect it to disappear when Israel conducts a massacre of record-breaking proportions. Bombing Palestinian civilians and their thousands of innocent children only gives Hamas a recruitment tool with which to cultivate a new generation of terrorists. Both sides here have to learn that it is not possible to sow hatred and reap peace. I think that is over-egging it a bit. there has never been any shortage of support for Hamas from the average Palestinian. There was overwhelming support for the Hamas attack on 7/10 and the residents of Gaza were dancing in the streets on the morning of the attack. |
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