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Post by Tinculin on Nov 27, 2023 16:14:00 GMT
Scrap councils, and privatise their services.
This would save a lot of tax but whether it would ultimately save people money is the big question.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2023 16:36:41 GMT
Scrap councils, and privatise their services. This would save a lot of tax but whether it would ultimately save people money is the big question. We privatised the water companies. Look how much more expensive yet much more crap they are. We privatised the railways and look how much more expensive yet hopelessly more crap they are. We privatised Royal Mail, now look how much more expensive yet hopeless and unreliably crap it now is. Same with my local busses. The ideological assumption that privatisation automatically makes things better, has been tested to destruction and proven to be wrong in far too many cases. In fact, there are clearly many cases where costs and services appear to have become much more expensive and obviously much more crap as a direct consequence of privatisation. The automatic assumption that privatisation is always the best solution is dead in the water now, demonstrably untrue in far too many cases. This does not mean that the reverse need be automatically true either, that public is always better. But we do need to get away from ideological assumptions about the superiority of the private sector or the public sector, recognise any inherent ills in both, and take account of those when formulating solutions. But based upon what tends to have happened so many times, I suspect privatisation of local services would see us paying a whole lot more for a much crappier service, with no accountability at all because we would have no democratic control over any of it. Once upon a time if my local busses were crap, I could complain about it to my elected councillors and they would look into it and get back to me. If they were to get many complaints about the same thing from different people they would start to think, "I could be losing votes here but if I tackle the problems and am seen to have resolved them or got them resolved by my efforts I might gain some votes instead." In other words, democratic accountability. Now if my local busses are crap - and they are much more so much more often - and I complain to my local councillors, I just get told they dont run them and are not responsible for them, they are a private company, there is nothing they can do. And writing to the people who are in charge of them now - the CEO and board of directors - will make sod all difference because unlike councillors, they dont have to worry about people like me voting them out of office. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 27, 2023 19:51:48 GMT
Scrap councils, and privatise their services. This would save a lot of tax but whether it would ultimately save people money is the big question. Our experience with the water companies says not. Anyone supplying essential services you are forced to pay for with no competition is bound to profiteer. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 27, 2023 22:02:54 GMT
The system in Ely is that binmen open the lid of the wheely bin and check if the right rubbish is in there, ive been caught out a couple of times and got warning notices on my bin. This meant i took my rubbish in my car, in bags to the local rubbish tip which is brilliant, modern, in and out in five minutes a couple of times. I could do this easily once a week and not have to bother with lorries, pay, pensions etc, and be charged horrendously. Fat chance of that. Of course i now sort my rubbish now, i make sure the top has the right rubbish, underneath is all sorts, they dont dig down. It all gets dumped in the same spot anyway. I recommend a dead hamster The bin men will lift the lid, scream ‘shit, it’s a rat’ and never bother opening your bin to check again I speak from experience |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 27, 2023 22:18:13 GMT
Scrap councils, and privatise their services. This would save a lot of tax but whether it would ultimately save people money is the big question.
Anyone supplying essential services you are forced to pay for with no competition is bound to profiteer. How are you measuring that? |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 27, 2023 22:38:41 GMT
Scrap councils, and privatise their services. This would save a lot of tax but whether it would ultimately save people money is the big question. We privatised the water companies. Look how much more expensive yet much more crap they are. We privatised the railways and look how much more expensive yet hopelessly more crap they are. We privatised Royal Mail, now look how much more expensive yet hopeless and unreliably crap it now is. Same with my local busses. The ideological assumption that privatisation automatically makes things better, has been tested to destruction and proven to be wrong in far too many cases. In fact, there are clearly many cases where costs and services appear to have become much more expensive and obviously much more crap as a direct consequence of privatisation. The automatic assumption that privatisation is always the best solution is dead in the water now, demonstrably untrue in far too many cases. This does not mean that the reverse need be automatically true either, that public is always better. But we do need to get away from ideological assumptions about the superiority of the private sector or the public sector, recognise any inherent ills in both, and take account of those when formulating solutions. But based upon what tends to have happened so many times, I suspect privatisation of local services would see us paying a whole lot more for a much crappier service, with no accountability at all because we would have no democratic control over any of it. Once upon a time if my local busses were crap, I could complain about it to my elected councillors and they would look into it and get back to me. If they were to get many complaints about the same thing from different people they would start to think, "I could be losing votes here but if I tackle the problems and am seen to have resolved them or got them resolved by my efforts I might gain some votes instead." In other words, democratic accountability. Now if my local busses are crap - and they are much more so much more often - and I complain to my local councillors, I just get told they dont run them and are not responsible for them, they are a private company, there is nothing they can do. And writing to the people who are in charge of them now - the CEO and board of directors - will make sod all difference because unlike councillors, they dont have to worry about people like me voting them out of office. Railways are a vast improvement on the old British Rail , new clean trains , decent seating |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 11:45:33 GMT
We privatised the water companies. Look how much more expensive yet much more crap they are. We privatised the railways and look how much more expensive yet hopelessly more crap they are. We privatised Royal Mail, now look how much more expensive yet hopeless and unreliably crap it now is. Same with my local busses. The ideological assumption that privatisation automatically makes things better, has been tested to destruction and proven to be wrong in far too many cases. In fact, there are clearly many cases where costs and services appear to have become much more expensive and obviously much more crap as a direct consequence of privatisation. The automatic assumption that privatisation is always the best solution is dead in the water now, demonstrably untrue in far too many cases. This does not mean that the reverse need be automatically true either, that public is always better. But we do need to get away from ideological assumptions about the superiority of the private sector or the public sector, recognise any inherent ills in both, and take account of those when formulating solutions. But based upon what tends to have happened so many times, I suspect privatisation of local services would see us paying a whole lot more for a much crappier service, with no accountability at all because we would have no democratic control over any of it. Once upon a time if my local busses were crap, I could complain about it to my elected councillors and they would look into it and get back to me. If they were to get many complaints about the same thing from different people they would start to think, "I could be losing votes here but if I tackle the problems and am seen to have resolved them or got them resolved by my efforts I might gain some votes instead." In other words, democratic accountability. Now if my local busses are crap - and they are much more so much more often - and I complain to my local councillors, I just get told they dont run them and are not responsible for them, they are a private company, there is nothing they can do. And writing to the people who are in charge of them now - the CEO and board of directors - will make sod all difference because unlike councillors, they dont have to worry about people like me voting them out of office. Railways are a vast improvement on the old British Rail , new clean trains , decent seating Yet far less reliable, far more disjointed and a whole lot more expensive, both for customers and taxpayers. |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 28, 2023 12:15:16 GMT
Railways are a vast improvement on the old British Rail , new clean trains , decent seating Yet far less reliable, far more disjointed and a whole lot more expensive, both for customers and taxpayers. British Rail was reliable? Take off those rose tinted glasses |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 28, 2023 14:05:56 GMT
Yet far less reliable, far more disjointed and a whole lot more expensive, both for customers and taxpayers. British Rail was reliable? Take off those rose tinted glasses Same now and ridiculously expensive to boot. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 28, 2023 14:13:14 GMT
Yet far less reliable, far more disjointed and a whole lot more expensive, both for customers and taxpayers. British Rail was reliable? Take off those rose tinted glasses I commuted Stirling to Edinburgh, Portsmouth to London and Portsmouth to Chichester off and on for several years and found British Rail reliable and helpful when things went wrong. When we had the storm in circa 1990 and many trains were cancelled a group of us were advised to go to Barnham and get a train for Portsmouth from there. Took a long time, but we all got home, thanks to the best efforts of the staff to keep connections going. Even commuting Ilford to London was very busy but usually efficient. |
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Post by piglet on Nov 28, 2023 14:59:35 GMT
When everything was publically owned the country was held to ransom by the unions, the country closed down. Public ownership is atrocious, whatever is run for the benefit of the employees, look at the NHS today, a complete shambles eating more and more money, and the service gets worse. The more public ownership will result in more employees voting red, your not going to vote blue, againsy yourself. Mind you, i would not vote tory they are red too.
The Tories keep pumping in money to the NHS, reform?, no.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 19:44:06 GMT
Yet far less reliable, far more disjointed and a whole lot more expensive, both for customers and taxpayers. British Rail was reliable? Take off those rose tinted glasses I am not saying that. What I am saying is that it is worse now. Take off your rose tinted glasses. |
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Post by Dogburger on Nov 29, 2023 10:11:54 GMT
When everything was publically owned the country was held to ransom by the unions, the country closed down. Public ownership is atrocious, whatever is run for the benefit of the employees, look at the NHS today, a complete shambles eating more and more money, and the service gets worse. The more public ownership will result in more employees voting red, your not going to vote blue, againsy yourself. Mind you, i would not vote tory they are red too. The Tories keep pumping in money to the NHS, reform?, no. And we are not held to ransom now? Try catching a train next week and you just know Christmas and New Year is going to be a lottery on what days you will be able to travel |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 29, 2023 10:29:21 GMT
I wouldn't mind privatisation so much if it had to compete. But truth is our railway lines are handed out to different companies by government with virtually no competition between them.
Same is true of water companies.
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Post by BvL on Dec 10, 2023 18:00:06 GMT
I wouldn't mind privatisation so much if it had to compete. But truth is our railway lines are handed out to different companies by government with virtually no competition between them. Same is true of water companies. Completion was banned. See the half price MTR bid for HS2. |
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