|
|
Post by jonksy on Nov 24, 2023 8:20:52 GMT
Tory party facing bid to bring High Court challenge over leadership election
|
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Nov 24, 2023 8:34:06 GMT
I can't imagine that it would succeed. The Tory membership are entitled to vote for their own leader. The problem is that when a governing party changes their leader the newbie automatically becomes PM without public election. I don't agree with that as there is no public mandate. It's happened 5 times in recent years, with Brown, May, Boris, Truss and Sunak all becoming PM without initial election.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 24, 2023 8:37:12 GMT
I can't imagine that it would succeed. The Tory membership are entitled to vote for their own leader. The problem is that when a governing party changes their leader the newbie automatically becomes PM without public election. I don't agree with that as there is no public mandate. It's happened 5 times in recent years, with Brown, May, Boris, Truss and Sunak all becoming PM without initial election. Under the UK constitution we do not elect Prime Ministers. |
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Nov 24, 2023 8:56:14 GMT
I can't imagine that it would succeed. The Tory membership are entitled to vote for their own leader. The problem is that when a governing party changes their leader the newbie automatically becomes PM without public election. I don't agree with that as there is no public mandate. It's happened 5 times in recent years, with Brown, May, Boris, Truss and Sunak all becoming PM without initial election. Under the UK constitution we do not elect Prime Ministers. Of course, but we do elect the government, so when the government changes it's reasonable for the public to have a say. |
|
|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Nov 24, 2023 9:12:33 GMT
After the Johnson/Truss/Sunak fiasco I think they challenge should be that the vote is put to the people and not to the party, and I think they should do it quickly before Starmer is elected and the same fate beholds him, it goes without saying Rayner will take his place, and we wont have a say in it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hutchyns on Nov 24, 2023 10:50:50 GMT
andrew brown
I don't believe we do. Isn't it the Monarch that selects who he/she will give the option to see if they can form a Government ?
That doesn't have to be the Party that we gave most votes to, or who were able to return most MPs ....it might be a group of small parties
who it's decided appear to have the best chance.
The electorate do nothing more than return members of Parliament ..... Ministers of any kind including Prime Minister, the Speaker etc isn't voted on by the public.
We currently don't even elect all the members who comprise the Government, an example being the current Foreign Secretary.
|
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Nov 24, 2023 11:18:14 GMT
andrew brown I don't believe we do. Isn't it the Monarch that selects who he/she will give the option to see if they can form a Government ? That doesn't have to be the Party that we gave most votes to, or who were able to return most MPs ....it might be a group of small parties who it's decided appear to have the best chance. The electorate do nothing more than return members of Parliament ..... Ministers of any kind including Prime Minister, the Speaker etc isn't voted on by the public. We currently don't even elect all the members who comprise the Government, an example being the current Foreign Secretary. That's a fair point. We could have perfectly had a Labour / LibDems coalition in 2010 based on the outcome of the election. |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Nov 24, 2023 11:51:38 GMT
Electing a party who chooses a PM is a reasonably accountable compromise. However, i think recently that has been abandoned in favour of just making an announcement
|
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Nov 26, 2023 12:25:33 GMT
Tory party facing bid to bring High Court challenge over leadership election
How could this succeed? It's a membership organisation and chooses the leader The sovereign appoints the PM Wonder who is funding this waste of court time? |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Nov 27, 2023 3:01:53 GMT
Under the UK constitution we do not elect Prime Ministers. Of course, but we do elect the government, so when the government changes it's reasonable for the public to have a say. No we don't, we elect ONE PERSON to represent us in parliament. If that ONE PERSON stands down or faces a recall, we elect ONE OTHER PERSON. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Nov 28, 2023 23:24:50 GMT
I can't imagine that it would succeed. The Tory membership are entitled to vote for their own leader. The problem is that when a governing party changes their leader the newbie automatically becomes PM without public election. I don't agree with that as there is no public mandate. It's happened 5 times in recent years, with Brown, May, Boris, Truss and Sunak all becoming PM without initial election. I think this judicial process will achieve nothing except deprive the plaintiff of a substantial amount of money which will be seen by the lawyers as a welcome Christmas bonus As you say, the party is fully entitled to pick and choose the way it selects its parliamentary party leader but that is all it does. As i’m sure you will agree the position of The Prime Minister in the House of Commons is an appointment entirely within the gift of The Sovereign and whilst there is a tradition indeed one might say an understanding these days that Their Majesty appoints to that position the person chosen by the largest party in Their Majesty's Government to lead it, there is in fact no binding requirement, treaty convention or document demanding they do that. As such, with the appointment being entirely a matter for The Sovereign, i do not see this gaining any traction at all |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Nov 28, 2023 23:53:14 GMT
I can't imagine that it would succeed. The Tory membership are entitled to vote for their own leader. The problem is that when a governing party changes their leader the newbie automatically becomes PM without public election. I don't agree with that as there is no public mandate. It's happened 5 times in recent years, with Brown, May, Boris, Truss and Sunak all becoming PM without initial election. I think this judicial process will achieve nothing except deprive the plaintiff of a substantial amount of money which will be seen by the lawyers as a welcome Christmas bonus As you say, the party is fully entitled to pick and choose the way it selects its parliamentary party leader but that is all it does. As i’m sure you will agree the position of The Prime Minister in the House of Commons is an appointment entirely within the gift of The Sovereign and whilst there is a tradition indeed one might say an understanding these days that Their Majesty appoints to that position the person chosen by the largest party in Their Majesty's Government to lead it, there is in fact no binding requirement, treaty convention or document demanding they do that. As such, with the appointment being entirely a matter for The Sovereign, i do not see this gaining any traction at all John, the way leaders of the Tory party are chosen leaves a lot to be desired, but you know perfectly well it's not a matter for the sovereign. The Sovereign appoints the prime minister he, or indeed she, is told to appoint. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Nov 29, 2023 0:01:42 GMT
I think this judicial process will achieve nothing except deprive the plaintiff of a substantial amount of money which will be seen by the lawyers as a welcome Christmas bonus As you say, the party is fully entitled to pick and choose the way it selects its parliamentary party leader but that is all it does. As i’m sure you will agree the position of The Prime Minister in the House of Commons is an appointment entirely within the gift of The Sovereign and whilst there is a tradition indeed one might say an understanding these days that Their Majesty appoints to that position the person chosen by the largest party in Their Majesty's Government to lead it, there is in fact no binding requirement, treaty convention or document demanding they do that. As such, with the appointment being entirely a matter for The Sovereign, i do not see this gaining any traction at all John, the way leaders of the Tory party are chosen leaves a lot to be desired, but you know perfectly well it's not a matter for the sovereign. The Sovereign appoints the prime minister he, or indeed she, is told to appoint. But they could in principle say bugger that, i’m not having that arse in that job, and pick another. That was the deal, nobody ever struck it down and because of that, i think this legal move will fail. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Nov 29, 2023 0:08:13 GMT
John, the way leaders of the Tory party are chosen leaves a lot to be desired, but you know perfectly well it's not a matter for the sovereign. The Sovereign appoints the prime minister he, or indeed she, is told to appoint. But they could in principle say bugger that, i’m not having that arse in that job, and pick another. That was the deal, nobody ever struck it down and because of that, i think this legal move will fail. Apologies, should have read back further, what legal move? |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Nov 29, 2023 0:46:19 GMT
But they could in principle say bugger that, i’m not having that arse in that job, and pick another. That was the deal, nobody ever struck it down and because of that, i think this legal move will fail. Apologies, should have read back further, what legal move? Ahh that, yes I was aware of it, I got sidelined slightly by talk of the sovereign. However yes, the legal challenge you speak of will undoubtedly fail. |
|
