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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 23, 2023 13:46:07 GMT
The difficulty with that claim is the great disparity between the numbers entering the EU and the number attempting to enter the UK. It's about an order of magnitude difference. I can guarantee you if Macron cut off the dinghy service that would help stop the flow, I doubt migrants would be to eager to get to France so they can stay there, France is just the stopgap to the UK, if they can't get to the UK France will not be their chosen stay. That's a misunderstanding. France has more asylum seekers than the UK. I'm pretty sure you've been advised that before. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 23, 2023 13:56:26 GMT
I can guarantee you if Macron cut off the dinghy service that would help stop the flow, I doubt migrants would be to eager to get to France so they can stay there, France is just the stopgap to the UK, if they can't get to the UK France will not be their chosen stay. That's a misunderstanding. France has more asylum seekers than the UK. I'm pretty sure you've been advised that before. France are still part of the EU FoM open border policy, the UK isn't,
France by area (landmass) 551,695 km² Its continental part covers about 1000 km from north to south and from east to west. Metropolitan France covers 551,500 square kilometres (212,935 sq mi), the largest among European Union members.
Geography. The total area of the United Kingdom is approximately 244,820 square kilometres (94,530 sq mi).
France by area is almost double the UK, so taking in that factor, we have a bigger influx % than France.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 23, 2023 14:36:05 GMT
I follow the line of reasoning concerning the effect of EU membership on present and ongoing employment prospects, but don't believe this would have been the only factor at least for those with higher cognitive abilities. Culture, travel, expanded education options for them and their children, and the adventure of living in another country as well as the geo-political advantages of membership would all have come into play as well. For them the decision would have been about much more than just jobs and wages, let alone bogus issues such as 'independence' and 'sovereignty'. I agree, for those so placed it was always about much more than jobs but of course it was about what was advantageous to them and theirs. For the lower 'cognitive ability' groups the advantages of being in were exactly the same as being out, they could still go to Torremolinos for a fortnight and have that once a year holiday in the sun without undue problems but they had also the other factor of having to compete harder for jobs and finding wages were being depressed due to the bulge in the Labour market at that end. I disagree that independence and sovereignty were bogus issues, they became bogus due to the unwillingness of politicians to implement them effectively. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 23, 2023 14:47:03 GMT
The 2015 Tory Manifesto could only have been referring to non-EU immigration, not to arrivals under EU FoM (who were not counted as migrants anyway). In 2015 Brexit was no more than a glint in Nige's eye. As far as governments in place since June 2016, I suspect all of your reasons come into play, except perhaps for No. 3 although that is open to debate. Disagree, Brexit was a possibility and once attained it was reasonable to assume that the Tories immigration limitations would apply. FOM was disruptive to many communities and even in Southall there was much moaning by the Multiculturalists already there that the Poles had taken over and changed the character of the area. This applied to many areas and even in Hereford where a large Polish community existed changing shops and restaurants, in the Hereford farming areas other Eastern Europeans proliferated. To think this would have no negative impact on people already there is just pie in the sky and the rapid changing of an abundance of areas post 1997 is no doubt a large part of of why the referendum was eagerly looked forward to by those generally in the Lower cognitive ability groups as it was their communities, jobs and culture that suffered the most. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 23, 2023 15:33:56 GMT
A great deal of damage can be done by a rogue government in any given five-year period so theoretically having the option to turf them out after that isn't really of any great comfort. Or at least it shouldn't be to any sentient elector. Especially when any foreseeable alternative is likely to be even worse. That argument makes no sense - OK you might have to wait 5 years before the electorate cast their verdict, that is much better than the previous system where they had no chance (ever) of expressing a verdict. they just had to lump it and shut up. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 23, 2023 15:49:46 GMT
I can guarantee you if Macron cut off the dinghy service that would help stop the flow, I doubt migrants would be to eager to get to France so they can stay there, France is just the stopgap to the UK, if they can't get to the UK France will not be their chosen stay. That's a misunderstanding. France has more asylum seekers than the UK. I'm pretty sure you've been advised that before. That's only because they can't funnel ALL of them to Calais. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 23, 2023 17:13:05 GMT
The scale of the problem - up until 1997 net migration was at a fairly low rate where migrants could be assimilated into the host society. Since then the scale of the problem has ballooned to the point where assimilation is not possible, or even wanted, by the migrant population.  |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 23, 2023 17:34:18 GMT
The scale of the problem - up until 1997 net migration was at a fairly low rate where migrants could be assimilated into the host society. Since then the scale of the problem has ballooned to the point where assimilation is not possible, or even wanted, by the migrant population. Looking at that graph notice anything?
I do, since Brexit the scale of the UK illegal migrant problem has soared.
LOL... the penny has dropped, the revenge of the EU ... we will control UK boarders as long as you are part of the EU ... but now you are not .......
INFLUX... we will just use the UK as a migrant dumping ground.
Starmer/Davey think this is fine ^^ as 'retribution' for Brexit .......... they must feel PROUD of themselves.
retribution. : punishment imposed (as on a convicted criminal) for purposes of repayment or revenge for the wrong committed.
CHEERS YOU LETIES.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 23, 2023 17:55:16 GMT
Net migration as it is usually calculated is not very useful as a metric of immigration if it includes the movements of British citizens in and out as well as foreigners. The true measure of immigration over a particular period of time is the net migrations of foreigners.
The reason why net migration was negative over the period 1950 to 1997 is because around four million Brits emigrated during this period. The notion that immigration was negligible over that period is incorrect. As Enoch correctly predicted by 2000, the 'coloured' population had grown to almost five million by then, mostly first generation immigrants and dependents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 19:19:57 GMT
These 672,000 must have somewhere to live. In fact, they are all likely to be in work, so will either be renting or buying property.
I don't have a problem with useful controlled and necessary immigration, but I do have a problem with upsetting the cultural demographics of the country.
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Post by ginnyg on Nov 23, 2023 19:34:49 GMT
I can guarantee you if Macron cut off the dinghy service that would help stop the flow, I doubt migrants would be to eager to get to France so they can stay there, France is just the stopgap to the UK, if they can't get to the UK France will not be their chosen stay. That's a misunderstanding. France has more asylum seekers than the UK. I'm pretty sure you've been advised that before. The difference being France has more room to accommodate them. |
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Post by ginnyg on Nov 23, 2023 19:37:07 GMT
The scale of the problem - up until 1997 net migration was at a fairly low rate where migrants could be assimilated into the host society. Since then the scale of the problem has ballooned to the point where assimilation is not possible, or even wanted, by the migrant population. Looking at that graph notice anything?
I do, since Brexit the scale of the UK illegal migrant problem has soared.
LOL... the penny has dropped, the revenge of the EU ... we will control UK boarders as long as you are part of the EU ... but now you are not .......
INFLUX... we will just use the UK as a migrant dumping ground.
Starmer/Davey think this is fine ^^ as 'retribution' for Brexit .......... they must feel PROUD of themselves.
retribution. : punishment imposed (as on a convicted criminal) for purposes of repayment or revenge for the wrong committed.
CHEERS YOU LETIES.
Lefties. But France and Macron know exactly how to encourage migrants to cross over to UK. Make conditions in the camps so dire that they will risk anything to get to a cushy life in the UK. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 23, 2023 22:29:31 GMT
Looking at that graph notice anything?
I do, since Brexit the scale of the UK illegal migrant problem has soared.
LOL... the penny has dropped, the revenge of the EU ... we will control UK boarders as long as you are part of the EU ... but now you are not .......
INFLUX... we will just use the UK as a migrant dumping ground.
Starmer/Davey think this is fine ^^ as 'retribution' for Brexit .......... they must feel PROUD of themselves.
retribution. : punishment imposed (as on a convicted criminal) for purposes of repayment or revenge for the wrong committed.
CHEERS YOU LETIES.
Lefties. But France and Macron know exactly how to encourage migrants to cross over to UK. Make conditions in the camps so dire that they will risk anything to get to a cushy life in the UK. That is a negligible issue though. The French are quite correct when they claim that we make it attractive for illegals to flood here - whereas they reject 75% of asylum claims, we approve 75% of asylum claims (even more now) many of which are failed asylum claimants from France. We also give them 4 star hotel rooms, 3 meals a day, free healthcare, free mobile phones, free wifi etc etc - who would not flock here?. The only way to get this system under control is to stop voting for the Tories, Labour or the LibDems - the choice is down to the electorate. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2023 8:24:04 GMT
Stop the boats, we have far too many boats.😂
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Post by jonksy on Nov 24, 2023 8:30:33 GMT
Stop the boats, we have far too many boats.😂 Stop the wokes, we have far too many wokes. |
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