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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 23, 2023 11:52:30 GMT
The worrying thing these are legal statistics, what about the tens of thousands apart from the boat people who have been smuggled in to the UK, you can double that 750,000 if you include illegal migrants. That's 150000 million extra people in just ONE year.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 23, 2023 11:55:22 GMT
The net migration statistics do include asylum-seekers but not illegals who have entered clandestinely or were originally admitted legally (e.g. visa overstayers and failed asylum seekers).
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Post by Orac on Nov 23, 2023 12:02:18 GMT
Surely the only incorrect political position is the one which has given rise to a more than quadrupling of non-EU immigration since 2016? Not necessarily. Have you noticed that the focus on this issue has substantially increased with the perpetrator having no ready explanation for the gigantic and persistent discrepancy between their manifesto pledges and their actions? It's not impossible that, had we remained in the EU, the situation might be even worse and with no hope at all of correction. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 23, 2023 12:08:19 GMT
As always, the interesting data is when you dig further into the figures than just the deadline. Per haps best to look before Covid to get useful comparisons so lets compare to 2019
The breakdown for arrivals departure net by category is as follows:
Work (arrivals, leavers net)
2019 89,000 44,000 45,000
2023 322,000 45,000 278,000
A high proportion of workers arriving are reported to be on health and social care visas although I dont see any figures as such. Perfectly reasonable question is why is this however? I have no answers
Study
2019 126,000 103,000 23,000
2023 378.000 115,000 263,000
2019 figures suggest that study was broadly balanced with arrivals broadly matching departures. There has been a huge spike in the last two years. It is not clear why. By its nature there should be a 2-5 year lag between arrivals and departures. It will be interesting to see if this lag materialises in the next couple of years.
Family
2019 65,000 10,000 55,000
2023 70,000 31,000 39,000
A relatively small and declining share of net immigration
HNumanitarian
2019 6,000
2023 83,000
This is mainly Hong Kong and Ukraine
Asylum
2019 39,000
2023 90,000
Much discussed but a relatively small part of overall immigration.
Think question could reasonably be asked. Has the Government been so focused on tabloid headlines and photo friendly tackling asylum that it
has taken its eye of the ball on the less photogenic work and study immigration routes.
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Post by Hutchyns on Nov 23, 2023 12:12:06 GMT
Then move on a few years and wasn't it Boris reassuring the electorate with constant talk about a 'points based' immigration system to insure only those we badly needed would be granted entry ?
Even if the public were to accept that 141,000 highly skilled Nigerians were urgently required here over the last 12 months, they can surely pay their own rent or hotel bills from their wages. It does make you wonder who are the 56,042 people in hotel accommodation or the 58,444 in 'dispersed' accommodation, housing generally provided by local Councils etc, that the BBC tells us about today, and for which the taxpayer presumably picks up the bill .... they can't all be people who have had their tents taken away by Suella Braverman surely ?
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 23, 2023 12:13:50 GMT
No the government hasn't taken its eye off the work and study routes. In fact it has introduced policy measures designed to dramatically increase the numbers admitted under both.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 23, 2023 12:21:55 GMT
Surely the only incorrect political position is the one which has given rise to a more than quadrupling of non-EU immigration since 2016? Not necessarily. Have you noticed that the focus on this issue has substantially increased with the perpetrator having no ready explanation for the gigantic and persistent discrepancy between their manifesto pledges and their actions? It's not impossible that, had we remained in the EU, the situation might be even worse and with no hope at all of correction. The latter point has to remain in the realm of speculation, although it has to be said that successive governments did not implement measures available to it under the FoM Directives to disallow unqualified EU nationals from exercising their 'treaty rights' in the UK. Nor did it take any steps to reform its labour market regulation and benefits system to bring them more in line with (tougher) European norms.
But as to your larger point, it seems you are persuaded that a principal reason for the UK's post-Brexit immigration debacle is No. 3 from Sandypine's list: "That there is a conspiracy to carry out the great replacement."
Perhaps a topic for the Mind Zone?
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Post by Orac on Nov 23, 2023 12:31:01 GMT
Not necessarily. Have you noticed that the focus on this issue has substantially increased with the perpetrator having no ready explanation for the gigantic and persistent discrepancy between their manifesto pledges and their actions? It's not impossible that, had we remained in the EU, the situation might be even worse and with no hope at all of correction. The latter point has to remain in the realm of speculation, although it has to be said that successive governments did not implement measures available to it under the FoM Directives to disallow unqualified EU nationals from exercising their 'treaty rights' in the UK. Nor did it take any steps to reform its labour market regulation and benefits system to bring them more in line with (tougher) European norms.
But as to your larger point, it seems you are persuaded that a principal reason for the UK's post-Brexit immigration debacle is No. 3 from Sandypine's list: "That there is a conspiracy to carry out the great replacement."
We have discussed this before. The catch is that the benefit system has to be applied evenly to everyone despite nationality. This was politically difficult for the UK as it would make the benefit system 'tougher' for everyone and the hallowed benefit system, NHS etc is a third rail in UK politics. This rule likely allowed the UK establishment off the hook (gave them a fig leaf). Currently they have no option left but to directly and unambiguously break election pledges - ie damage their own reputation by making themselves outright liars. |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 23, 2023 12:34:24 GMT
Furious Tory Right warns Rishi Sunak the party faces a 'do or die moment' to act over soaring immigration as net arrival numbers are revised UP to a new record of 745,000 fuelled by non-EU arrivals from India, China, Pakistan, Ukraine and Nigeria
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 23, 2023 12:53:49 GMT
Brexit is working as intended (?) Well yes, that is correct. The Government of the day is deciding on the level of immigration (as it should be) - the electorate will pass judgement on their decisions at the next election. Compared with the pre-Brexit situation where neither the Government or the electorate had any input into the level of immigration then I'm sure you will agree it is a vast improvement. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 23, 2023 13:07:47 GMT
A great deal of damage can be done by a rogue government in any given five-year period so theoretically having the option to turf them out after that isn't really of any great comfort. Or at least it shouldn't be to any sentient elector. Especially when any foreseeable alternative is likely to be even worse.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 23, 2023 13:16:13 GMT
Surely the only incorrect political position is the one which has given rise to a more than quadrupling of non-EU immigration since 2016? The reason why every EU country is suffering with huge influxes of migrants is all down to Macron.
Macron has set France up as the France-UK migrant dinghy service, they are flocking from all over the place to get to France, Macron is costing lives, and keeping people traffickers in business .... so why is everyone afraid to say it?
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 23, 2023 13:21:29 GMT
The difficulty with that claim is the great disparity between the numbers entering the EU and the number attempting to enter the UK. It's about an order of magnitude difference.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 23, 2023 13:37:16 GMT
The difficulty with that claim is the great disparity between the numbers entering the EU and the number attempting to enter the UK. It's about an order of magnitude difference. I can guarantee you if Macron cut off the dinghy service that would help stop the flow, I doubt migrants would be to eager to get to France so they can stay there, France is just the stopgap to the UK, if they can't get to the UK France will not be their chosen stay. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 23, 2023 13:43:17 GMT
Dan, legal economic migrants come on the basis of their skills.
Illegal economic migrants come on the basis that the EU simply let them through and funneled them our way.
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