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Post by zanygame on Nov 16, 2023 21:37:55 GMT
The housing shortage is not due to Lefties or Asylum seekers or international law. ITS BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T BUILT THE HOUSES WE WOULD NEED FOR THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WE HAVE INVITED Saying the stuff we have isn't enough for the people we invite is the same as saying we invite too many for the stuff we have. Yet for some reason, you always lay the blame on our supposedly inadequate provision, rather than our (clearly) over-adequate invitations. There is a reason for that imho. That is because we have already invited them here, they are already here. I cannot uninvite them and nor can you, so I am being pragmatic. You just want another moan with no solution to offer |
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Post by Orac on Nov 16, 2023 21:39:59 GMT
Saying the stuff we have isn't enough for the people we invite is the same as saying we invite too many for the stuff we have. Yet for some reason, you always lay the blame on our supposedly inadequate provision, rather than our (clearly) over-adequate invitations. There is a reason for that imho. That is because we have already invited them here, they are already here. I cannot uninvite them and nor can you, so I am being pragmatic. You just want another moan with no solution to offer I do have a solution 1) stop inviting more. 2) take stock and decide what is needed. You would rather do it the other way around, for what i feel are obvious reasons. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 16, 2023 21:56:01 GMT
That is because we have already invited them here, they are already here. I cannot uninvite them and nor can you, so I am being pragmatic. You just want another moan with no solution to offer I do have a solution 1) stop inviting more. 2) take stock and decide what is needed. You would rather do it the other way around, for what i feel are obvious reasons. Stop inviting more does not solve the existing shortage, even you must know that. Take stock, Jeez. You think aliens run the Vatican. for what I feel are obvious reasons. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 16, 2023 22:14:59 GMT
Well the first idea is not going to happen - all the major parties are wedded to mass immigration. As to your second point - how would you override local objections without any political repercussions?. For example the Tories suffered a huge by-election loss in Chesham and Amersham precisely because they were forcing through mass housebuilding against the wishes of the local populace. I didn't say it was going to happen, I said it was my solution. Second point. I would accept the political repercussions from a few wealthy people known as nimbies. But mostly I would build here. Well you would but obviously the various Political Parties will not. So that being said how practical do you think your ideas are? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 16, 2023 22:17:44 GMT
I didn't say it was going to happen, I said it was my solution. Second point. I would accept the political repercussions from a few wealthy people known as nimbies. But mostly I would build here. Well you would but obviously the various Political Parties will not. So that being said how practical do you think your ideas are? Of course. And we the public will never make to political repercussions for immigration bad enough. But the real reason is that their paymasters are the landowners and they want demand to keep the price high. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 16, 2023 22:24:42 GMT
Well you would but obviously the various Political Parties will not. So that being said how practical do you think your ideas are? Of course. And we the public will never make to political repercussions for immigration bad enough. But the real reason is that their paymasters are the landowners and they want demand to keep the price high. Who is 'their' - the Public are the ones who dont want building, there are plenty of Landowners who would be quite willing to sell their land to Wimpy or Barratt. There is no shortage of land, it's Planning Permission that is the problem. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 16, 2023 22:40:18 GMT
Of course. And we the public will never make to political repercussions for immigration bad enough. But the real reason is that their paymasters are the landowners and they want demand to keep the price high. Who is 'their' - the Public are the ones who dont want building, there are plenty of Landowners who would be quite willing to sell their land to Wimpy or Barratt. There is no shortage of land, it's Planning Permission that is the problem. They're the MP's. The ones who want those non exec jobs when they are unelected For a million pounds an acre, not for £9,000 an acre. The landed gentry rely on their MP's to keep the value of their estates up in value |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 16, 2023 22:48:39 GMT
What keeps prices up is the lack of planning permission - which is not controlled by the 'landed gentry' but by local politicians who are responding to the wishes of their electorate.
TBH, your wishful thinking is worse than Sunaks.
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Post by Orac on Nov 16, 2023 22:50:01 GMT
I do have a solution 1) stop inviting more. 2) take stock and decide what is needed. You would rather do it the other way around, for what i feel are obvious reasons. Stop inviting more does not solve the existing shortage, even you must know that. It stops the problem getting bigger. You want to 'solve' a problem in a way that will expand it further. I have expanded the house supply, but, in the meantime, more migrants have arrived, so now i have to expand it further - oh look, what a surprise we have even more immigrants now. I guess all i can do is expand supply further,..and so on. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 16, 2023 22:55:28 GMT
Stop inviting more does not solve the existing shortage, even you must know that.
You want to 'solve' a problem in a way that will expand it further. I have expanded the house supply, but, in the meantime, more migrants have arrived, so now i have to expand it further - oh look, what a surprise we have even more immigrants now. I guess all i can do is expand supply further,..and so on. Well it does slightly more than that - over time it completely solves the problem. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 16, 2023 22:58:10 GMT
What keeps prices up is the lack of planning permission - which is not controlled by the 'landed gentry' but by local politicians who are responding to the wishes of their electorate. TBH, your wishful thinking is worse than Sunaks. Yes, politicians decide which land can apply for planning permission, they play the games, they control how much land becomes available and therefore its price. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 16, 2023 23:03:04 GMT
Stop inviting more does not solve the existing shortage, even you must know that. It stops the problem getting bigger. You want to 'solve' a problem in a way that will expand it further. I have expanded the house supply, but, in the meantime, more migrants have arrived, so now i have to expand it further - oh look, what a surprise we have even more immigrants now. I guess all i can do is expand supply further,..and so on. I agree with stopping more. I have always agreed with stopping more, I have made this argument so many times. But I see it doesn't suit you so I sadly have no choice but to treat you with the same contempt you treat me. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2023 23:06:28 GMT
Stop inviting more does not solve the existing shortage, even you must know that. It stops the problem getting bigger. You want to 'solve' a problem in a way that will expand it further. I have expanded the house supply, but, in the meantime, more migrants have arrived, so now i have to expand it further - oh look, what a surprise we have even more immigrants now. I guess all i can do is expand supply further,..and so on. You just end up wasting time addressing the same nonsense, which is good enough when the agenda is ongoing. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 17, 2023 7:46:14 GMT
What keeps prices up is the lack of planning permission - which is not controlled by the 'landed gentry' but by local politicians who are responding to the wishes of their electorate. TBH, your wishful thinking is worse than Sunaks. Yes, politicians decide which land can apply for planning permission, they play the games, they control how much land becomes available and therefore its price. Indeed - so given the political realities that these politicians operate in, I dont see how you can move on from the inefficient system we have now which blocks building because people dont want any near to them. I would suggest that a more practical way of tackling the issue would be to regenerate the existing abandoned housing in communities all over the north and force welfare recipients/asylum seekers etc to move there if they want to continue to receive State support. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 17, 2023 8:51:42 GMT
It stops the problem getting bigger. You want to 'solve' a problem in a way that will expand it further. I have expanded the house supply, but, in the meantime, more migrants have arrived, so now i have to expand it further - oh look, what a surprise we have even more immigrants now. I guess all i can do is expand supply further,..and so on. I agree with stopping more. I have always agreed with stopping more, I have made this argument so many times. But I see it doesn't suit you so I sadly have no choice but to treat you with the same contempt you treat me. Let me highlight something I suspect is happening here - When many English people hear the words 'new housing development' they often don't associate it with the notion of 'more housing for my children and grandchildren'. They hear 'housing for other people's children'. |
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