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Post by sheepy on Nov 19, 2023 23:24:17 GMT
And as usual you cannot answer any of the points I made, and you make the mistake of me saying it’s all the fault of the Jews which means you either didn’t read my posts or selectively ignored where I showed various Israeli groups and politicians are as critical of Netanyahu and co as I am. You are out to smear anyone who questions as being anti semitic a now well worn and false manoeuvre to discredit people. I have already said that there is opposition to Netanyahu, that is not news - but stop ignoring the point, if the Palestinians have rejected every peace deal offered (for decades before Netanyahu came on the scene) how is the lack of peace solely down to Israel? Having a moment? according to you for weeks it is all the fault of Palestinians, now it is suddenly about solely being down to Israel. |
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Post by wapentake on Nov 19, 2023 23:43:32 GMT
And as usual you cannot answer any of the points I made, and you make the mistake of me saying it’s all the fault of the Jews which means you either didn’t read my posts or selectively ignored where I showed various Israeli groups and politicians are as critical of Netanyahu and co as I am. You are out to smear anyone who questions as being anti semitic a now well worn and false manoeuvre to discredit people. I have already said that there is opposition to Netanyahu, that is not news - but stop ignoring the point, if the Palestinians have rejected every peace deal offered (for decades before Netanyahu came on the scene) how is the lack of peace solely down to Israel? I’ve never said the lack of peace is solely down to Israel,Hamas are a bunch of murdering scumbagsof that there is no doubt but because of the extremists within Israel you have cause and effect. And as far as ignoring the point that depends where you get you information from doesn’t it? www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-negotiation-idea-always-fictionAnd the reality probably lies between the two narratives . |
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Post by walterpaisley on Nov 20, 2023 7:25:42 GMT
There are better people in Israel,unfortunately they aren’t in power I agree, and so do (I assume) most, if not all, of my Jewish friends and acquaintances. My closest Jewish friend is Israeli and lives in York. Many of her younger family members are currently drafted in to invade Gaza, and she's not in a good place right now. Hamas are rotten to the pips. That's a given. They have to be neutralised, and the Palestinian people empowered to embrace an alternative leadership. That's the only way toward a 2-State Solution. The other side of that lies with the hawks in the Knesset - illegal settlements must be bulldozed, and occupied territories respected. It certainly seems to be true that Netanyahu has - over years - tacitly "promoted" Hamas into the position of a threat against which he can rally the Right, but they've kept up their end of the bargain, too: Years of randomly firing rockets into civilian areas ain't about to endear them to anyone, and the latest atrocity and hostage-taking has finally given Bibi carte blanc to do whatever he wants. As ever with these things, it's the ordinary people on each side who pay for the military posturing of their "leaders". |
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Post by wapentake on Nov 20, 2023 8:07:05 GMT
There are better people in Israel,unfortunately they aren’t in power I agree, and so do (I assume) most, if not all, of my Jewish friends and acquaintances. My closest Jewish friend is Israeli and lives in York. Many of her younger family members are currently drafted in to invade Gaza, and she's not in a good place right now. Hamas are rotten to the pips. That's a given. They have to be neutralised, and the Palestinian people empowered to embrace an alternative leadership. That's the only way toward a 2-State Solution. The other side of that lies with the hawks in the Knesset - illegal settlements must be bulldozed, and occupied territories respected. It certainly seems to be true that Netanyahu has - over years - tacitly "promoted" Hamas into the position of a threat against which he can rally the Right, but they've kept up their end of the bargain, too: Years of randomly firing rockets into civilian areas ain't about to endear them to anyone, and the latest atrocity and hostage-taking has finally given Bibi carte blanc to do whatever he wants. As ever with these things, it's the ordinary people on each side who pay for the military posturing of their "leaders". There’s an interesting piece here published not that long before the attack detailing the rift in Israel and its politicians and extremists in the underground who have largely been left to continue unhindered. www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-zionism-split-warning-colonial-history |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 20, 2023 8:11:53 GMT
I have already said that there is opposition to Netanyahu, that is not news - but stop ignoring the point, if the Palestinians have rejected every peace deal offered (for decades before Netanyahu came on the scene) how is the lack of peace solely down to Israel? I’ve never said the lack of peace is solely down to Israel,Hamas are a bunch of murdering scumbagsof that there is no doubt but because of the extremists within Israel you have cause and effect. And as far as ignoring the point that depends where you get you information from doesn’t it? www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-negotiation-idea-always-fictionAnd the reality probably lies between the two narratives . Well it's an interesting polemic but its all rather vague. For instance can you explain what is meant by this: "Neither Israel’s ostensible 2000 nor 2007-09 peace offers met the minimum “good faith” threshold of the international consensus"
What is this 'good faith' threshold? - sounds more like an excuse not to agree a deal. The 2000 proposal gave the Palestinians all of Gaza, half of Jerusalem and 95% of the West Bank with land swaps from Israel to make up the difference - what more do the Palestinians want?. The Palestinians even refused to use the Israeli offer as the basis for further negotiation and simply walked away and started an Intifada. We are now getting on for a 100 years of the Palestinians rejecting any sort of peace deal - in fact we are now in the situation where organisations like Hamas and the BDS Campaign try to undermine any campaign (from either side) calling for a resumption of peace talks. |
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Post by wapentake on Nov 20, 2023 8:25:56 GMT
I’ve never said the lack of peace is solely down to Israel,Hamas are a bunch of murdering scumbagsof that there is no doubt but because of the extremists within Israel you have cause and effect. And as far as ignoring the point that depends where you get you information from doesn’t it? www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-negotiation-idea-always-fictionAnd the reality probably lies between the two narratives . Well it's an interesting polemic but its all rather vague. For instance can you explain what is meant by this: "Neither Israel’s ostensible 2000 nor 2007-09 peace offers met the minimum “good faith” threshold of the international consensus"
What is this 'good faith' threshold? - sounds more like an excuse not to agree a deal. The 2000 proposal gave the Palestinians all of Gaza, half of Jerusalem and 95% of the West Bank with land swaps from Israel to make up the difference - what more do the Palestinians want?. The Palestinians even refused to use the Israeli offer as the basis for further negotiation and simply walked away and started an Intifada. We are now getting on for a 100 years of the Palestinians rejecting any sort of peace deal - in fact we are now in the situation where organisations like Hamas and the BDS Campaign try to undermine any campaign (from either side) calling for a resumption of peace talks. Since I didn’t t write the piece why do you expect answers from me? I would surmise though it refers to some expectations from the international community but you have already made clear your disdain for the UN and other such bodies so its not unsurprising you react how you have to it. It was presented as an alternative to your “they rejected every chance for a two state solution” and as I said the reality probably lies somewhere in between. Read the piece I posted in reply to Walter outlining the rifts in Israel and the work of extremists acting in a similar fashion to Hamas politics. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2023 8:39:42 GMT
I’ve never said the lack of peace is solely down to Israel,Hamas are a bunch of murdering scumbagsof that there is no doubt but because of the extremists within Israel you have cause and effect. And as far as ignoring the point that depends where you get you information from doesn’t it? www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-negotiation-idea-always-fictionAnd the reality probably lies between the two narratives . Well it's an interesting polemic but its all rather vague. For instance can you explain what is meant by this: "Neither Israel’s ostensible 2000 nor 2007-09 peace offers met the minimum “good faith” threshold of the international consensus"
What is this 'good faith' threshold? - sounds more like an excuse not to agree a deal. The 2000 proposal gave the Palestinians all of Gaza, half of Jerusalem and 95% of the West Bank with land swaps from Israel to make up the difference - what more do the Palestinians want?. The Palestinians even refused to use the Israeli offer as the basis for further negotiation and simply walked away and started an Intifada. We are now getting on for a 100 years of the Palestinians rejecting any sort of peace deal - in fact we are now in the situation where organisations like Hamas and the BDS Campaign try to undermine any campaign (from either side) calling for a resumption of peace talks. It wasn't good enough. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 20, 2023 13:05:32 GMT
I have already said that there is opposition to Netanyahu, that is not news - but stop ignoring the point, if the Palestinians have rejected every peace deal offered (for decades before Netanyahu came on the scene) how is the lack of peace solely down to Israel? I’ve never said the lack of peace is solely down to Israel,Hamas are a bunch of murdering scumbagsof that there is no doubt but because of the extremists within Israel you have cause and effect. And as far as ignoring the point that depends where you get you information from doesn’t it? www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-negotiation-idea-always-fictionAnd the reality probably lies between the two narratives . Yes the Israelis will seriously fight back at anyone who attacks them, this has apparently been the aim of Likud since they first tasted power in 1977. Before Likud Israel had 30 years of moderate Social Zionism, their reward for that were years of terrorism by suicide bombers and planted explosives, along with wars fighting against the Arab / Muslim attempts to eliminate Israel. Golda Meir leader until 1974, quote: __“When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons.” Without question, THE ARABS ARE THE ARCHITECTS OF THEIR OWN MISFORTUNE. It is time the WORLD STOOD UP FOR THE TRUTH. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 20, 2023 16:54:30 GMT
Well it's an interesting polemic but its all rather vague. For instance can you explain what is meant by this: "Neither Israel’s ostensible 2000 nor 2007-09 peace offers met the minimum “good faith” threshold of the international consensus"
What is this 'good faith' threshold? - sounds more like an excuse not to agree a deal. The 2000 proposal gave the Palestinians all of Gaza, half of Jerusalem and 95% of the West Bank with land swaps from Israel to make up the difference - what more do the Palestinians want?. The Palestinians even refused to use the Israeli offer as the basis for further negotiation and simply walked away and started an Intifada. We are now getting on for a 100 years of the Palestinians rejecting any sort of peace deal - in fact we are now in the situation where organisations like Hamas and the BDS Campaign try to undermine any campaign (from either side) calling for a resumption of peace talks. Since I didn’t t write the piece why do you expect answers from me? I would surmise though it refers to some expectations from the international community but you have already made clear your disdain for the UN and other such bodies so its not unsurprising you react how you have to it.
It was presented as an alternative to your “they rejected every chance for a two state solution” and as I said the reality probably lies somewhere in between. Read the piece I posted in reply to Walter outlining the rifts in Israel and the work of extremists acting in a similar fashion to Hamas politics. Well the UN Partition Plan was rejected by the Palestinians - did that not meet this 'good faith' threshold?. Listen to Bill - peace was almost within his grasp. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 20, 2023 17:00:39 GMT
Jess Philips resigned from the Labour front bench to support the Palestinian's - not surprising given the views of her constituents..  |
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Post by see2 on Nov 20, 2023 17:06:50 GMT
Nor do I see it as a justification for criminalising any religion. But people should be free to post their concerns. I think you missed my genuine area of concern, i.e. the clearly self-indoctrinating style of Islam the religion. I equate such levels of indoctrination as cult like in there use. This might make more sense to you if you consider the fact that thousands of operations on the brain have been done without the use of anesthetics, this is because the Brain cannot FEEL anything. It can only receive and recognise that feelings are being sent from the nervous system and the sensory system, the latter sends out hormonal created feelings. The stronger these learnt hormonal feelings are the greater control they exert on the Logical part of the brain. What the bloody hell are you rambling on about ........ LOL Seriously, I would not expect you to understand, so I won't try to explain it to you. Unless you really want me to  |
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Post by see2 on Nov 20, 2023 17:24:57 GMT
Jess Philips resigned from the Labour front bench to support the Palestinian's - not surprising given the views of her constituents.. Yes, the centuries long hatred of the Jews by the seriously sick side of the Palestinian Muslim Arabs, not necessarily all Arabs, but it is there for all to plainly see in the 21st cent. One might think he has no idea of the hundreds of thousands of deaths people like him have caused by their evil mouthed rhetoric over the centuries, but that is just one more weakness in the Muslim world. |
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Post by om15 on Nov 20, 2023 17:34:12 GMT
If you stroll down the road in Birmingham holding a Union Jack you will be lifted by the police for being provocative, racist, inflammatory and hateful, this bloke comes out with all that and nobody lifts an eyebrow.
He should be nicked for hate speech and given an appropriate custodial sentence, the fact that he hasn't been demonstrates to us indigenous people that we really have lost our country.
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Post by see2 on Nov 20, 2023 17:40:04 GMT
I have already said that there is opposition to Netanyahu, that is not news - but stop ignoring the point, if the Palestinians have rejected every peace deal offered (for decades before Netanyahu came on the scene) how is the lack of peace solely down to Israel? I’ve never said the lack of peace is solely down to Israel,Hamas are a bunch of murdering scumbagsof that there is no doubt but because of the extremists within Israel you have cause and effect. And as far as ignoring the point that depends where you get you information from doesn’t it?www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-negotiation-idea-always-fictionAnd the reality probably lies between the two narratives . Well yes and no. Persistent propaganda and also at times opinions of friends can make inroads into logic. Sometimes, perhaps unwittingly, Logic needs to be protected. |
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Post by wapentake on Nov 20, 2023 18:43:00 GMT
Jess Philips resigned from the Labour front bench to support the Palestinian's - not surprising given the views of her constituents.. Yes, the centuries long hatred of the Jews by the seriously sick side of the Palestinian Muslim Arabs, not necessarily all Arabs, but it is there for all to plainly see in the 21st cent. One might think he has no idea of the hundreds of thousands of deaths people like him have caused by their evil mouthed rhetoric over the centuries, but that is just one more weakness in the Muslim world. I would not hesitate to have this person arrested tried and subject to incarceration if found guilty. I would add that if he is not a British citizen and found guilty should be deported,this is not our war and nobody should bring rhetoric like that whether Muslim or Jew. |
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