|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 5, 2023 15:25:17 GMT
Has it come to pass? Or not?
"...Fifty years from now Britain will still be the country of long shadows on county cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and – as George Orwell said – “old maids bicycling to Holy Communion through the morning mist” and if we get our way – Shakespeare still read even in school. Britain will survive unamendable in all essentials.
Surely we trust our own integrity as a people quite enough to fear nothing in Europe. We are the British, a people freely living inside a Europe which is glad to see us and wants us. After 20 years we have come of age in Europe. One Conservative leader put us there. This Conservative leader means us to thrive there. So let’s get on with it."
Speech to the Conservative Group for Europe – 22 April 1993
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 5, 2023 15:54:27 GMT
Little of what Major envisioned would be intact fifty years on is still discernibly so even just thirty years later.
So where did it all go wrong? And why?
Is it possible, for example, to imagine Rishi Sunak delivering such a speech?
|
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 5, 2023 16:24:13 GMT
I don't think that John Major lived in the real world then. It was never actually like that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 5, 2023 17:42:14 GMT
John Major was born in 1943 and everything would have been how he describes during his formative years.
You sound rather like the scoffers in the Guardian and the Independent who insisted he was wrong because he didn't mention multiculturalism or the permissive society.
But I think his larger point, and the message he was conveying to his party colleagues, is that there was no inherent conflict between Britain being an integral part of the European Union and wishing to preserve its own unique culture.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2023 17:49:57 GMT
Has it come to pass? Or not? "...Fifty years from now Britain will still be the country of long shadows on county cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and – as George Orwell said – “old maids bicycling to Holy Communion through the morning mist” and if we get our way – Shakespeare still read even in school. Britain will survive unamendable in all essentials. Surely we trust our own integrity as a people quite enough to fear nothing in Europe. We are the British, a people freely living inside a Europe which is glad to see us and wants us. After 20 years we have come of age in Europe. One Conservative leader put us there. This Conservative leader means us to thrive there. So let’s get on with it." Speech to the Conservative Group for Europe – 22 April 1993 He must have been naive and didn't foresee the traitors in Labour. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 5, 2023 17:50:40 GMT
Hmmm...  |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Nov 5, 2023 17:50:56 GMT
I don't think that John Major lived in the real world then. It was never actually like that. John Major suffered 11 years of Thatcherism IMO he can be excused if he got some things wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Nov 5, 2023 18:03:25 GMT
John Major was born in 1943 and everything would have been how he describes during his formative years. You sound rather like the scoffers in the Guardian and the Independent who insisted he was wrong because he didn't mention multiculturalism or the permissive society. But I think his larger point, and the message he was conveying to his party colleagues, is that there was no inherent conflict between Britain being an integral part of the European Union and wishing to preserve its own unique culture. There is if one accepts free movement as we can see that cultures can be overwhelmed. I digged up the Cowley road in Oxford in 1976 for a week, significant changes have occurred there. I also lived in Ilford for a year,in teh 90s and that has changed extensively. I did some markets in Stevenage in approx 2017 and in conversation with some locals there was significant discontent as regards the Eastern Europeans who had managed to become established as a 'community' in the area. If you change the people you change the culture most especially if you change quickly ie a generation or so. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 5, 2023 18:04:19 GMT
Hmmm... That process was of course well underway by 1993 however the numbers have at least quintupled since then.
And from a cultural perspective or a political one, there was little discernible influence.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 5, 2023 18:15:48 GMT
Re FoM: the political and cultural influence of Eastern Europeans has been essentially negligible. As you would expect. Unlike other immigrant groups they have not sought special privileges nor have they indulged in ethnic rent-seeking or racially antagonistic politics.
Nevertheless in 1993 nobody could have foreseen the madness of the Blairites in refusing to impose transitional controls.
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Nov 6, 2023 10:39:40 GMT
Re FoM: the political and cultural influence of Eastern Europeans has been essentially negligible. As you would expect. Unlike other immigrant groups they have not sought special privileges nor have they indulged in ethnic rent-seeking or racially antagonistic politics. Nevertheless in 1993 nobody could have foreseen the madness of the Blairites in refusing to impose transitional controls. Hang on, transitional controls were optional. In 2004 NL were attempting to make the UK expanding economy grow even more. That is the their reason for not limiting migrants from the new EU membership countries. Other migrations from outside of the EU, which I believe were the greater, were no more controllable then than they are now. |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Nov 6, 2023 10:44:55 GMT
Re FoM: the political and cultural influence of Eastern Europeans has been essentially negligible. As you would expect. Unlike other immigrant groups they have not sought special privileges nor have they indulged in ethnic rent-seeking or racially antagonistic politics. Nevertheless in 1993 nobody could have foreseen the madness of the Blairites in refusing to impose transitional controls. Hang on, transitional controls were optional. In 2004 NL were attempting to make the UK expanding economy grow even more. That is the their reason for not limiting migrants from the new EU membership countries. Other migrations from outside of the EU, which I believe were the greater, were no more controllable then than they are now. So what went wrong then? As ll they aceived was to burden the UK with a mountain of debt. Which we will never pay off in our lifetime. We can all remember blairs PFI which was and is a total disaster. |
|
|
|
Post by bancroft on Nov 6, 2023 10:48:36 GMT
'93 was before mass immigration, before Iraq and before the banking crisis not to mention COV-ID.
Now in 2023 with the push for building more homes will the village green formerly used for cricket survive or will it be turned into tower blocks?
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Nov 6, 2023 10:59:28 GMT
There isn't much John Major has gotten right, but he was right to oppose devolution.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 6, 2023 12:45:04 GMT
John Major was born in 1943 and everything would have been how he describes during his formative years. You sound rather like the scoffers in the Guardian and the Independent who insisted he was wrong because he didn't mention multiculturalism or the permissive society. But I think his larger point, and the message he was conveying to his party colleagues, is that there was no inherent conflict between Britain being an integral part of the European Union and wishing to preserve its own unique culture. And he was clearly talking utter shite about that, too. |
|
