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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2023 8:58:07 GMT
It was not correct - there were no WMD's and certainly none that were going to be fired in the next 45 minutes. You say you want to wash your hands and leave it to the politicians - the basic fact is that the politicians cannot be trusted. Obviously posters like yourself cannot be trusted. The 45 mins was actual intelligence but was found to be 'single sourced' so was dropped. Blix knew that the missiles and chemicals known to be destroyed by Iraq, did not agree with the receipts for materials he was in possession of. This was proven to be the case by the post invasion Iraq survey force. And is the reason why Blix and the UN inspectors were still looking for them until March 2003. you arent still on here trying to polish the blair turd that is the iraq war and all his lies?
No one outside your bubble , from scot indy supporters like me and moray , to tories like pacifico , to socialists like srb agree with you.You are deluded if you think anyone is buyng your pish.
I think tony blair was brilliant. He should come back and stand in frontline politics for starmer. Even maggie thatcher couldnt unite both the left and right in absolute hatred of her the way blair managed.
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2023 9:03:18 GMT
Obviously posters like yourself cannot be trusted. The 45 mins was actual intelligence but was found to be 'single sourced' so was dropped. Blix knew that the missiles and chemicals known to be destroyed by Iraq, did not agree with the receipts for materials he was in possession of. This was proven to be the case by the post invasion Iraq survey force. And is the reason why Blix and the UN inspectors were still looking for them until March 2003. you arent still on here trying to polish the blair turd that is the iraq war and all his lies?
No one outside your bubble , from scot indy supporters like me and moray , to tories like pacifico , to socialists like srb agree with you.You are deluded if you think anyone is buyng your pish.
I think tony blair was brilliant. He should come back and stand in frontline politics for starmer. Even maggie thatcher couldnt unite both the left and right in absolute hatred of her the way blair managed.
Come back when you have done the research yourself, instead of just going along personal opinions and propaganda insinuated lies. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2023 9:13:43 GMT
you arent still on here trying to polish the blair turd that is the iraq war and all his lies?
No one outside your bubble , from scot indy supporters like me and moray , to tories like pacifico , to socialists like srb agree with you.You are deluded if you think anyone is buyng your pish.
I think tony blair was brilliant. He should come back and stand in frontline politics for starmer. Even maggie thatcher couldnt unite both the left and right in absolute hatred of her the way blair managed.
Come back when you have done the research yourself, instead of just going along personal opinions and propaganda insinuated lies. its been two decades now see 2 , no one is buying your spin. Not that you are any good at it of course. You unite most of the forum against the rubbish you post , a feat even i find incredible.
Carry on though , its always fun listening to the deluded waffle on about a much hated individual like blair.
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Post by buccaneer on Nov 3, 2023 9:37:47 GMT
Not all lies. Voters had to make an informed opinion and sift through the distortions as you suggest. This happens come every general election to. I'm going to assume (rightly I suspect) that had the vote gone your way, you'd never be here today standing for a second vote. That assumes that voters would sift through the lies and distortions. I was still informing some Outers in 2021 that the EU was not run by unelected individuals. I did vote remain, but my suggestion of a second vote is if the circumstances suggests one is advisable in around 40 years time. Or better still if a government is elected on the understanding that a request for membership of the EU is their intention, thereby avoiding the need for a referendum. But that would only reflect the situation then, which could be we are OK as we are. That then assumes voters sifting through lies and distortions in upcoming elections. Unelected officials do hold sway over decisions made in Brussels. Granted they can be voted down. My whole premise was based on the fact the the UK doesn't need politicians who aren't co-cultural, co-governing us. I would agree in fairness on a vote if one is advisable in 40 years. Not in 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. years after. And I would agree if a government stood on a ticket to rejoin and got elected into office on that pledge. You will probably find most leavers are more democratic than most rejoiners, and that seems to be the case. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 3, 2023 14:48:12 GMT
Not that I can speak for the Scots, but that isn't fair game. There should be one vote at the beginning and be done with it. If the UK government knew there was a second vote coming, they could ensure (as the EU tried) to make the deal so bad it would bolster a vote to stay. In other words, one negotiating partner would have the upper hand and be motivated to make the deal so unpalatable for the other party, they ensure that a second vote is pretty much assured in their favour. That's not democracy, that's rigging it. Voting is democracy. If referendum is imposed then a second vote at some time would involve a better informed voter, just as the second vote referendum in Ireland proved. A better informed voter is less likely to be misled. A differently informed voter more like which is not the same thing as better informed. The Yes campaign took full advantage of the financial crisis fallout at the time with dire warnings of loss of grants, a collapsing property market and unemployment. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 3, 2023 17:43:42 GMT
It was not correct - there were no WMD's and certainly none that were going to be fired in the next 45 minutes. You say you want to wash your hands and leave it to the politicians - the basic fact is that the politicians cannot be trusted. Obviously posters like yourself cannot be trusted. The 45 mins was actual intelligence but was found to be 'single sourced' so was dropped. Blix knew that the missiles and chemicals known to be destroyed by Iraq, did not agree with the receipts for materials he was in possession of. This was proven to be the case by the post invasion Iraq survey force. And is the reason why Blix and the UN inspectors were still looking for them until March 2003. How can I put it in words that you might understand - THERE WERE NO WMDS.. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 3, 2023 17:51:32 GMT
Calling people stupid because they don't vote for you, is stupid. The greatest threat to democracy is that all our parties are SHIT. What's the point in voting for the Tories, or Labour, or the Lib Dems, or the Greens? Or even Reform? I will be voting (on a use it or lose it basis) but I will still need a reason to choose between them. The options are not very inspiring. It's not easy to choose when the options are so poor. Keir Starmer is abysmal and so is Rishi Sunak. And that's why there's no democracy in the UK.
Every election is a toss up between the main parties who are near as damn it the same with no one else standing a cat in hell's chance.
Welcome to the LibLabCon Party - available in three exciting colours but only one flavour.
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2023 18:36:21 GMT
Come back when you have done the research yourself, instead of just going along personal opinions and propaganda insinuated lies. its been two decades now see 2 , no one is buying your spin. Not that you are any good at it of course. You unite most of the forum against the rubbish you post , a feat even i find incredible.
Carry on though , its always fun listening to the deluded waffle on about a much hated individual like blair.
In other words you have never done any research on it yourself, you prefer your ill informed opinion like the rest of the lazy people who settle for all the dishonest propaganda. You are so far behind reality I can't even muster up any sympathy for you. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2023 18:38:05 GMT
Calling people stupid because they don't vote for you, is stupid. The greatest threat to democracy is that all our parties are SHIT. What's the point in voting for the Tories, or Labour, or the Lib Dems, or the Greens? Or even Reform? I will be voting (on a use it or lose it basis) but I will still need a reason to choose between them. The options are not very inspiring. It's not easy to choose when the options are so poor. Keir Starmer is abysmal and so is Rishi Sunak. And that's why there's no democracy in the UK.
Every election is a toss up between the main parties who are near as damn it the same with no one else standing a cat in hell's chance.
Welcome to the LibLabCon Party - available in three exciting colours but only one flavour.
Very funny but totally wrong. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2023 18:44:57 GMT
Obviously posters like yourself cannot be trusted. The 45 mins was actual intelligence but was found to be 'single sourced' so was dropped. Blix knew that the missiles and chemicals known to be destroyed by Iraq, did not agree with the receipts for materials he was in possession of. This was proven to be the case by the post invasion Iraq survey force. And is the reason why Blix and the UN inspectors were still looking for them until March 2003. How can I put it in words that you might understand - THERE WERE NO WMDS.. No usable WMD were found, that's not in dispute. But Blix and the UN inspectors were still looking for them in 2003, I know why, but it seems that you don't? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2023 20:50:14 GMT
Calling people stupid because they don't vote for you, is stupid. The greatest threat to democracy is that all our parties are SHIT. What's the point in voting for the Tories, or Labour, or the Lib Dems, or the Greens? Or even Reform? I will be voting (on a use it or lose it basis) but I will still need a reason to choose between them. The options are not very inspiring. It's not easy to choose when the options are so poor. Keir Starmer is abysmal and so is Rishi Sunak. And that's why there's no democracy in the UK.
Every election is a toss up between the main parties who are near as damn it the same with no one else standing a cat in hell's chance.
Welcome to the LibLabCon Party - available in three exciting colours but only one flavour.
And it tastes like crap. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2023 22:11:48 GMT
That assumes that voters would sift through the lies and distortions. I was still informing some Outers in 2021 that the EU was not run by unelected individuals. I did vote remain, but my suggestion of a second vote is if the circumstances suggests one is advisable in around 40 years time. Or better still if a government is elected on the understanding that a request for membership of the EU is their intention, thereby avoiding the need for a referendum. But that would only reflect the situation then, which could be we are OK as we are. That then assumes voters sifting through lies and distortions in upcoming elections. Unelected officials do hold sway over decisions made in Brussels. Granted they can be voted down. My whole premise was based on the fact the the UK doesn't need politicians who aren't co-cultural, co-governing us. I would agree in fairness on a vote if one is advisable in 40 years. Not in 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. years after. And I would agree if a government stood on a ticket to rejoin and got elected into office on that pledge. You will probably find most leavers are more democratic than most rejoiners, and that seems to be the case. The difference between general elections and referendum is total. Apart from the differences already mentioned the government can be changed every 5 years, referendum can't. Or are extremely unlikely to. No unelected people in the EU have any ability to impose any changes of their own at any time. The Commission making proposals they cannot enforce certainly does not fit your claim. And the elected European Parliament has the final say. No matter what market the UK enters there will be rules there made by others, and following them may impinge on our sovereignty, for the benefit of all concerned. OK, so now you know I am not one of those who has ever pushed for a revote a soon as possible. I have accepted Brexit, but I still have the right to criticise the situation if I think fit. Just as I have the right to criticise an elected government if I thought criticism was earned. I think your final point has more to do with your opinion than fact, but I could be wrong. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 3, 2023 22:12:33 GMT
How can I put it in words that you might understand - THERE WERE NO WMDS.. No usable WMD were found, that's not in dispute. But Blix and the UN inspectors were still looking for them in 2003, I know why, but it seems that you don't? the reason for the invasion was not to look for WMD's that 'might' be there - the reason was to prevent the use of WMD's that were there.. ..but there were no WMD's - we were lied to by the people you are trying to protect. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2023 22:14:13 GMT
No usable WMD were found, that's not in dispute. But Blix and the UN inspectors were still looking for them in 2003, I know why, but it seems that you don't? the reason for the invasion was not to look for WMD's that 'might' be there - the reason was to prevent the use of WMD's that were there.. ..but there were no WMD's - we were lied to by the people you are trying to protect. In a nutshell… |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2023 22:26:31 GMT
No usable WMD were found, that's not in dispute. But Blix and the UN inspectors were still looking for them in 2003, I know why, but it seems that you don't? the reason for the invasion was not to look for WMD's that 'might' be there - the reason was to prevent the use of WMD's that were there.. ..but there were no WMD's - we were lied to by the people you are trying to protect. The inspectors were looking for Weapon s of Mass Destruction that they had every reason to believe were there. Apart from the deficit between weapons destroyed and Receipts for materials for weapons, there was Blix's reference after 1441, to the cessation of 'cat and mouse games' by Saddam. Do you know what he meant by that? |
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