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Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2023 20:51:47 GMT
Sounds unworkable, undesirable and possibly totalitarian. I mean, compulsory medical treatment or else?
No thanks.
Big brother. But the alternative is we find the money. I wonder how people would be happy to see the NHS privatised, knowing that the poor would not get treatment.
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Post by Bentley on Oct 25, 2023 21:06:10 GMT
“Should we make NHS health care (Free at the point of delivery) dependent on you having regular tests and taking the advice/ medication prescribed by your doctor/ nurse.
Would this self responsibility save the NHS significant amounts of money the tax payer currently has to find. “
Sounds like a good idea at first glance . However it’s pretty much unworkable and open to abusive state control and mission creep into other ‘ free’ state services .
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 25, 2023 21:08:21 GMT
Sounds unworkable, undesirable and possibly totalitarian. I mean, compulsory medical treatment or else?
No thanks.
Big brother. But the alternative is we find the money. I wonder how people would be happy to see the NHS privatised, knowing that the poor would not get treatment. Indeed - that is why millions of poor people all across Europe are dropping dead every day. Try and live in reality...
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 25, 2023 21:13:51 GMT
Oh, it's much more than that. Let's see: Unworkable: It's hard enough to get to see a healthcare professional as it is, when you actually need treatment. Let alone see one to find out whether you might need treatment. Undesirable: In a free society, people should have freedom of choice, especially when it comes to their own bodies. Totalitarian: It seems only a step away from eugenics to me. I mean what if the recommended treatment is abortion or sterilisation. Are we going to make that compulsory? And it's very open to abuse. Let's take your Covid example (a decent enough one). I'm a key worker and worked throughout the pandemic in a public facing role, travelling into London every day. I was over a year into that before I caught Covid (unvaccinated) and it wasn't that bad. I've had 4 jabs since and then caught Covid again. I won't be bothering with any more jabs. So, if I get Covid again, and it's worse, should I not be treated? Worse, what if I have a different illness but they deny treatment anyway because I haven't had my 93rd Covid jab? I wonder how people would be happy to see the NHS privatised, knowing that the poor would not get treatment. Ah, the poor. But under your system poor people might end up with treatment that they don't feel is right for them because they can't afford to say: “No”. And what if they have an adverse reaction or die of it? What then? Or will that not be an issue because you're just going to forcibly sterilise them, or else? Nope, it's fraught with danger.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 25, 2023 21:19:05 GMT
Or will that not be an issue because you're just going to forcibly sterilise them, or else? Nope, it's fraught with danger. Yes - the Left Wing in the 1930's were incredibly keen on Eugenics, in fact the Beveridge, the father of the Welfare State, was a great fan. Perhaps that is how he expected it to be affordable?..
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 25, 2023 21:22:05 GMT
They were still practicing it in Sweden until the 70s. But that what "Progressive" governments do.
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Post by Orac on Oct 26, 2023 7:04:39 GMT
The national service is advertised as free at provision for all. The NHS don't own the services they offer.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 26, 2023 7:16:41 GMT
“Should we make NHS health care (Free at the point of delivery) dependent on you having regular tests and taking the advice/ medication prescribed by your doctor/ nurse. Would this self responsibility save the NHS significant amounts of money the tax payer currently has to find. “ Sounds like a good idea at first glance . However it’s pretty much unworkable and open to abusive state control and mission creep into other ‘ free’ state services . Everything is open to abusive state control. If we use that as an excuse not to try then we would close the NHS altogether. I assume assessments and decisions on "free" treatment would be made by clinicians. That said, it would require some considerable thought. Is someone who refuses to give up smoking a drug addict, needing special help? (As would apply to a heroin addict) Is an overweight person Obese or Grossly Obese, deserving of free treatment or not?
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Post by zanygame on Oct 26, 2023 7:18:43 GMT
Big brother. But the alternative is we find the money. I wonder how people would be happy to see the NHS privatised, knowing that the poor would not get treatment. Indeed - that is why millions of poor people all across Europe are dropping dead every day. Try and live in reality... The Eu health service is not privatised. Payment are compulsory.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 26, 2023 7:22:31 GMT
Oh, it's much more than that. Let's see: Unworkable: It's hard enough to get to see a healthcare professional as it is, when you actually need treatment. Let alone see one to find out whether you might need treatment. Undesirable: In a free society, people should have freedom of choice, especially when it comes to their own bodies. Totalitarian: It seems only a step away from eugenics to me. I mean what if the recommended treatment is abortion or sterilisation. Are we going to make that compulsory? And it's very open to abuse. Let's take your Covid example (a decent enough one). I'm a key worker and worked throughout the pandemic in a public facing role, travelling into London every day. I was over a year into that before I caught Covid (unvaccinated) and it wasn't that bad. I've had 4 jabs since and then caught Covid again. I won't be bothering with any more jabs. So, if I get Covid again, and it's worse, should I not be treated? Worse, what if I have a different illness but they deny treatment anyway because I haven't had my 93rd Covid jab? I wonder how people would be happy to see the NHS privatised, knowing that the poor would not get treatment. Ah, the poor. But under your system poor people might end up with treatment that they don't feel is right for them because they can't afford to say: “No”. Its not my system. I suggest it as the alternative I prefer, which is that we increase taxes to provide the NHS we say we want. Very rare, far rarer than those killed by the disease. Medicine is a numbers game. Get help. Thank you for your opinion.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 26, 2023 7:25:55 GMT
Indeed - that is why millions of poor people all across Europe are dropping dead every day. Try and live in reality... The Eu health service is not privatised. Payment are compulsory. It's delivered by the private sector - which NHS supporters keep telling us is privatisation. If you have had a change of heart and now want a modern European health system then I say welcome, a sinner repents..
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 26, 2023 7:40:44 GMT
Ok then, if we're being pedantic, the system that you proposed. Thank you for your opinion. You're welcome. It was a terrible idea.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 26, 2023 7:41:45 GMT
The Eu health service is not privatised. Payment are compulsory. It's delivered by the private sector - which NHS supporters keep telling us is privatisation. If you have had a change of heart and now want a modern European health system then I say welcome, a sinner repents.. I have never been opposed to the EU health system. I have pointed out to you on numerous occasions that it costs more in tax than our NHS. If you would like to pay the same as the EU average that suits me fine. But don't expect the EU system for the money you now pay.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 26, 2023 7:42:46 GMT
Ok then, if we're being pedantic, the system that you proposed. Thank you for your opinion. You're welcome. It was a terrible idea. I agree, but if people don't want to pay more. Something has to give? A cull of the very old?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 26, 2023 7:47:38 GMT
No. Better a cull of the non-contributors.
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