|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 24, 2023 6:32:11 GMT
Listening to a program the other day, they were repeating the idea that prevention is cheaper than cure. They went on to say how many people were unaware they had hypertension, high cholesterol, borderline type 2 diabetes. All due to poor diet and bad habits.
What shocked me was that they were out in the community offering on the spot testing for these and people were refusing, didn't want to know.
My thoughts.
Should we make NHS health care (Free at the point of delivery) dependent on you having regular tests and taking the advice/ medication prescribed by your doctor/ nurse.
Would this self responsibility save the NHS significant amounts of money the tax payer currently has to find.
|
|
|
|
Post by seniorcitizen007 on Oct 25, 2023 6:30:06 GMT
I recently had a minor procedure away from the privately run dialysis unit (where none of the staff are obese). Of the four nurses who attended to me three of them were obese, one probably morbidly so. I commented to my nephrologist that some of the NHS staff appeared to be candidates for dialysis at some future date. He agreed with me and said that he himself had taken steps to lose weight. There are staff in the dialysis unit who are overweight ... I've commented on this to them when they attend to me. Now they mostly avoid me. Several of the staff who attend to me have spoken about how they regularly exercise. Whilst they are connecting me up we chatter about what we do to stay fit. The fit staff and patients are mostly friendly towards me, the unfit ones less so. One of the obese patients who overheard me complained about me. When the unit manager spoke to me about it I told her she needs to lose weight and gave her advise about how to do so. She actually agreed with me that she needed to.
As I walk to the hospital from the bus station a significant percentage of the nursing staff I pass are overweight or obese. In the hospital corridors one sees a parade of "fat" people, some bizarrely so ... grossly obese people being wheeled around or using mobility scooters. Rows of fat people sitting in the waiting areas.
Ten years ago I was friendly with a young women who was slim ... now she's nearly 30 stone and uses a mobility scooter ... and she's not the only person I've known for a few years who is now "gross".
|
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2023 7:09:04 GMT
I recently had a minor procedure away from the privately run dialysis unit (where none of the staff are obese). Of the four nurses who attended to me three of them were obese, one probably morbidly so. I commented to my nephrologist that some of the NHS staff appeared to be candidates for dialysis at some future date. He agreed with me and said that he himself had taken steps to lose weight. There are staff in the dialysis unit who are overweight ... I've commented on this to them when they attend to me. Now they mostly avoid me. Several of the staff who attend to me have spoken about how they regularly exercise. Whilst they are connecting me up we chatter about what we do to stay fit. The fit staff and patients are mostly friendly towards me, the unfit ones less so. One of the obese patients who overheard me complained about me. When the unit manager spoke to me about it I told her she needs to lose weight and gave her advise about how to do so. She actually agreed with me that she needed to. As I walk to the hospital from the bus station a significant percentage of the nursing staff I pass are overweight or obese. In the hospital corridors one sees a parade of "fat" people, some bizarrely so ... grossly obese people being wheeled around or using mobility scooters. Rows of fat people sitting in the waiting areas. Ten years ago I was friendly with a young women who was slim ... now she's nearly 30 stone and uses a mobility scooter ... and she's not the only person I've known for a few years who is now "gross". Its mad isn't it. But what you say here tells me that my scheme could not be totally voluntary. so having been tested the advice you were given would be compulsory if you wanted to continue getting free health care. If you didn't bother then any treatment would have an added cost. Hope you are keeping well enough Senior Citizen. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2023 8:12:11 GMT
I recently had a minor procedure away from the privately run dialysis unit (where none of the staff are obese). Of the four nurses who attended to me three of them were obese, one probably morbidly so. I commented to my nephrologist that some of the NHS staff appeared to be candidates for dialysis at some future date. He agreed with me and said that he himself had taken steps to lose weight. There are staff in the dialysis unit who are overweight ... I've commented on this to them when they attend to me. Now they mostly avoid me. Several of the staff who attend to me have spoken about how they regularly exercise. Whilst they are connecting me up we chatter about what we do to stay fit. The fit staff and patients are mostly friendly towards me, the unfit ones less so. One of the obese patients who overheard me complained about me. When the unit manager spoke to me about it I told her she needs to lose weight and gave her advise about how to do so. She actually agreed with me that she needed to. As I walk to the hospital from the bus station a significant percentage of the nursing staff I pass are overweight or obese. In the hospital corridors one sees a parade of "fat" people, some bizarrely so ... grossly obese people being wheeled around or using mobility scooters. Rows of fat people sitting in the waiting areas. Ten years ago I was friendly with a young women who was slim ... now she's nearly 30 stone and uses a mobility scooter ... and she's not the only person I've known for a few years who is now "gross". When I was working in the NHS in recent years there always seemed to be money for "free" doughnuts. Enough said. |
|
|
|
Post by dappy on Oct 25, 2023 8:32:27 GMT
your initial question was an interesting one, Zany. I do think we need to attempt to pivot our healthcare from cure to prevention but there is a moral question then about what do you do about people who refuse the prevention message and then present with chronic health ailments. Are we really going to deny them treatment at that stage leaving them in chronic pain at best perhaps ending their life at worst because they didn't comply with our healthcare advice or rules earlier in their lives. We do already do this a bit rationing liver care for alcoholics for example but to extend that more universally is a big moral judgement. A similar question perhaps is whether it is fair to society in general to spend vast sums on extending the life of chronically ill elderly patients or whether a system of voluntary or even compulsory euthanasia in some health related not age related cases (we do it for animals why not humans?) is appropriate. Again though a massive moral judgement and shift would be required.
This does feel like one of those issues that may be logical and work in a theoretical discussion but would be impossible to introduce by any politician at least in a democratic system.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Oct 25, 2023 8:41:01 GMT
Would this self responsibility save the NHS significant amounts of money the tax payer currently has to find. It would save a fortune. As to how we get there from here, I have no idea. I think the 'working from home' fad may actually help because people end up with more time to be able to eat healthily and exercise. A person who spend 2 hours a day travelling back and forth from work (a conservative amount) is rather low on options for living healthily, unless they don't want to be able to do anything else. They might be able to manage a proper diet, but even that requires regular visits to shops that sell actual food. I think the largest social components in the decline are the destruction of our traditional family, people working far from home and the closing of our traditional greengrocers (replacement with superstores and newsagents) |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2023 17:54:51 GMT
your initial question was an interesting one, Zany. I do think we need to attempt to pivot our healthcare from cure to prevention but there is a moral question then about what do you do about people who refuse the prevention message and then present with chronic health ailments. Are we really going to deny them treatment at that stage leaving them in chronic pain at best perhaps ending their life at worst because they didn't comply with our healthcare advice or rules earlier in their lives. We do already do this a bit rationing liver care for alcoholics for example but to extend that more universally is a big moral judgement. A similar question perhaps is whether it is fair to society in general to spend vast sums on extending the life of chronically ill elderly patients or whether a system of voluntary or even compulsory euthanasia in some health related not age related cases (we do it for animals why not humans?) is appropriate. Again though a massive moral judgement and shift would be required. This does feel like one of those issues that may be logical and work in a theoretical discussion but would be impossible to introduce by any politician at least in a democratic system. Hi Dappy. Yes I realised it was a vexed question. I'm not suggesting we deny treatment, but that they have to pay an extra fee. It seems cruel and I can see some people allowing their condition to worsen when they could get help. But my repeated suggestions that we need to pay more have been universally rebuffed, so we need to look at alternatives, no matter how uncomfortable. 25% of our population is now obese, 64% overweight. We know the issues associated with this just as well as we know the effects of alcohol on the liver. Question is: Would it get support from a population of whom 64% would currently fail the pass. Re, voluntary euthanasia, a thread of its own I think, but one I have tackled with no result. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2023 17:57:12 GMT
Would this self responsibility save the NHS significant amounts of money the tax payer currently has to find. It would save a fortune. As to how we get there from here, I have no idea. I think the 'working from home' fad may actually help because people end up with more time to be able to eat healthily and exercise. A person who spend 2 hours a day travelling back and forth from work (a conservative amount) is rather low on options for living healthily, unless they don't want to be able to do anything else. They might be able to manage a proper diet, but even that requires regular visits to shops that sell actual food. I think the largest social components in the decline are the destruction of our traditional family, people working far from home and the closing of our traditional greengrocers (replacement with superstores and newsagents) I would only add ignorance. You can eat healthily from a supermarket, but you do need to know what you're looking at. I even found packs of frozen peas with added sugar. |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Oct 25, 2023 17:59:08 GMT
It would save a fortune. As to how we get there from here, I have no idea. I think the 'working from home' fad may actually help because people end up with more time to be able to eat healthily and exercise. A person who spend 2 hours a day travelling back and forth from work (a conservative amount) is rather low on options for living healthily, unless they don't want to be able to do anything else. They might be able to manage a proper diet, but even that requires regular visits to shops that sell actual food. I think the largest social components in the decline are the destruction of our traditional family, people working far from home and the closing of our traditional greengrocers (replacement with superstores and newsagents) I would only add ignorance. You can eat healthily from a supermarket, but you do need to know what you're looking at. I even found packs of frozen peas with added sugar. You took my meaning the wrong way. Supermarkets tend to me more distant than the greengrocer/ butcher. |
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Oct 25, 2023 18:08:44 GMT
Would this self responsibility save the NHS significant amounts of money the tax payer currently has to find. It would save a fortune. As to how we get there from here, I have no idea. I think the 'working from home' fad may actually help because people end up with more time to be able to eat healthily and exercise. A person who spend 2 hours a day travelling back and forth from work (a conservative amount) is rather low on options for living healthily, unless they don't want to be able to do anything else. They might be able to manage a proper diet, but even that requires regular visits to shops that sell actual food. I think the largest social components in the decline are the destruction of our traditional family, people working far from home and the closing of our traditional greengrocers (replacement with superstores and newsagents) Maybe, or maybe WFH makes it easier (and less effort) to make regular visits to the fridge and biscuit tin |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2023 18:11:01 GMT
I would only add ignorance. You can eat healthily from a supermarket, but you do need to know what you're looking at. I even found packs of frozen peas with added sugar. You took my meaning the wrong way. Supermarkets tend to me more distant than the greengrocer/ butcher. Do you mean mileage distant or personally distant? |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Oct 25, 2023 18:20:32 GMT
You took my meaning the wrong way. Supermarkets tend to me more distant than the greengrocer/ butcher. Do you mean mileage distant or personally distant? Mileage  It's part of a change in lifestyle and it has many drawbacks. The biggest issues are probably the changes to family. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Oct 25, 2023 19:20:10 GMT
Listening to a program the other day, they were repeating the idea that prevention is cheaper than cure. They went on to say how many people were unaware they had hypertension, high cholesterol, borderline type 2 diabetes. All due to poor diet and bad habits. What shocked me was that they were out in the community offering on the spot testing for these and people were refusing, didn't want to know. My thoughts. Should we make NHS health care (Free at the point of delivery) dependent on you having regular tests and taking the advice/ medication prescribed by your doctor/ nurse. Would this self responsibility save the NHS significant amounts of money the tax payer currently has to find. Regular checks is one thing and in the round is a good idea, taking the advice is a bit different especially now with the 'vaccine advice'. Should the unvaxed be somehow denied treatment becasue they did not accept advice. I could save the NHS large amounts of money tomorrow but then that is another debate |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2023 20:02:04 GMT
Listening to a program the other day, they were repeating the idea that prevention is cheaper than cure. They went on to say how many people were unaware they had hypertension, high cholesterol, borderline type 2 diabetes. All due to poor diet and bad habits. What shocked me was that they were out in the community offering on the spot testing for these and people were refusing, didn't want to know. My thoughts. Should we make NHS health care (Free at the point of delivery) dependent on you having regular tests and taking the advice/ medication prescribed by your doctor/ nurse. Would this self responsibility save the NHS significant amounts of money the tax payer currently has to find. Regular checks is one thing and in the round is a good idea, taking the advice is a bit different especially now with the 'vaccine advice'. Should the unvaxed be somehow denied treatment becasue they did not accept advice.I could save the NHS large amounts of money tomorrow but then that is another debate Yes, if they get Covid. |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 25, 2023 20:41:04 GMT
Sounds unworkable, undesirable and possibly totalitarian. I mean, compulsory medical treatment or else?
No thanks.
|
|
