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Post by Orac on Oct 18, 2023 15:31:56 GMT
The Fa has a domain and a job - any kind of abuse conducted by a player is within that domain.
The supposed abuse / racism of American policemen or British people as a generality, is not in that domain. It has no business having an opinion about these matters or advertising that opinion.
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Post by Dogburger on Oct 18, 2023 15:34:00 GMT
Perhaps the greatest role models in England, are the England football team players, especially to the younger, more impressionable members of our society. Gareth Southgate has set a good example to fans, and to the wider population, because whatever Mr Southgate states, the media take note and print it or repeat it. The football season 2020 - 2021 was a particularly bad season for on line and on the pitch racial abuse directed at Marcus Rashford, Kyle Walker, Raheem Sterling, Jude Bellingham, Reece James and Tyrone Mings. GARETH SOUTHGATE SAID THIS .... Our players are role models. And, beyond the confines of the pitch, we must recognise the impact they can have on society. We must give them the confidence to stand up for their teammates and the things that matter to them as people. "I have never believed that we should just stick to football" "I know my voice carries weight, not because of who I am but because of the position that I hold. At home, I’m below the kids and the dogs in the pecking order but publicly I am the England men’s football team manager. I have a responsibility Rubbish post SID , The 2020-21 season was played in front of empty stands due to lockdown so dont see how that was a particularly bad season for racial abuse . Southgate is a weird bloke ,probably means well but more likely likes to be liked by his black players that giving out lessons to the rest of us . The people who set the best example to society are the mainly white fans who turn up every week to support their mainly black teams , they need no lessons from Southgate on how to behave in society |
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Post by see2 on Oct 18, 2023 15:46:49 GMT
They certainly don't share yours, Drippy. You would be better saying nowt. Exacerbated by your silly following post. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 18, 2023 15:50:13 GMT
Let this be a warning to the others who go down the woke route, John Lewis with its diversity CEO who is now getting the boot because she's ruined every Christmas advert with her woke virtue signalling Christmas, JL are going bust, every organization that rams this down your throat is heading for financial ruin, go woke go broke, when are they going to learn? You could show the way instead of hiding behind your all too often repeated "woke" hiding place. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 18, 2023 15:53:47 GMT
I have never claimed that there is a silent majority all sharing exactly my opinions. On some matters no doubt I am with the majority on some matters in the minority. Both is fine with me. For what it is worth, I think the vast majority are perfectly happy with England footballers demonstrating their opposition to racism before games. I suspect the vast majority would struggle to work out what that has to do with Hamas's inhumanity in Israel and Israel's inhumanity in Gaza. For what its worth the vast are not and never have been happy with any footballers showing support for anything but the team .As fans we go to get away from all that shite for a couple of hours a week not to have it forced fed us by those seeking brownie points from Woke HQ For what its worth, it appears to be the ones with the smallest minds and the biggest gobs that shout loudest against taking the knee. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 18, 2023 15:58:49 GMT
Once again you seem to awarding yourself the right to talk for the "vast majority". Despite your opinion not appearing to reflect majority opinion in matches i have been too. What was that: Wokechester Rovers vs Transgender United?  That you continuously decide to expose the fact in your posts that you are an idiot, is the only good thing about your posts |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 18, 2023 16:16:03 GMT
Lefties are the new clergy . It’s true because they say it’s true and they say it because it’s true .
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Post by sandypine on Oct 18, 2023 17:38:03 GMT
Perhaps the greatest role models in England, are the England football team players, especially to the younger, more impressionable members of our society. Gareth Southgate has set a good example to fans, and to the wider population, because whatever Mr Southgate states, the media take note and print it or repeat it. The football season 2020 - 2021 was a particularly bad season for on line and on the pitch racial abuse directed at Marcus Rashford, Kyle Walker, Raheem Sterling, Jude Bellingham, Reece James and Tyrone Mings. GARETH SOUTHGATE SAID THIS .... Our players are role models. And, beyond the confines of the pitch, we must recognise the impact they can have on society. We must give them the confidence to stand up for their teammates and the things that matter to them as people. "I have never believed that we should just stick to football" "I know my voice carries weight, not because of who I am but because of the position that I hold. At home, I’m below the kids and the dogs in the pecking order but publicly I am the England men’s football team manager. I have a responsibility to the wider community to use my voice, and so do the players. "It’s their duty to continue to interact with the public on matters such as equality, inclusivity and racial injustice, while using the power of their voices to help put debates on the table, raise awareness and educate" Well done to Gareth Southgate and the England football teamClearly some idiots think its "Left wing" or even "woke" to instill good virtues, sound principles or decency into the impressionable - IT ISENT, its simply teaching people how to be decent human beigns. Then we have to consider what are 'good virtues', 'sound principles' and 'decency'. I am sure mine would be different from yours and even Southgate's. Southgate has no monopoly on the definitions and that is what makes his motives 'woke'. He is using his position to promote his views, he is using his position and that of the footballers to promote those views. We assume that the players think all the definitions are sound or do they agree to ensure their chance of a place in the team. What you are saying is that a player who was a UKIP member would not get a place even if he was the best player around and even if no one else knew exactly what his views were. I thought that was the whole point of having a team picked on merit, you get the best players and then hopefully the best team which is the managers job, and only that. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 18, 2023 17:54:21 GMT
Presumably even your mythical player who happened to be one of what must be UKIPs last members would oppose his teammates being racially abused and wish to educate his teams supporters not to do so. If he condoned his teammates being racially abused, his presence would not be conducive to having a strong team spirit. As you will know , a successful team needs ti be more than rather than less than the sum of it parts.
Are you suggesting that UKIP members past and present are all racist?
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Post by sandypine on Oct 18, 2023 18:03:23 GMT
Presumably even your mythical player who happened to be one of what must be UKIPs last members would oppose his teammates being racially abused and wish to educate his teams supporters not to do so. If he condoned his teammates being racially abused, his presence would not be conducive to having a strong team spirit. As you will know , a successful team needs ti be more than rather than less than the sum of it parts. Are you suggesting that UKIP members past and present are all racist? Then that begs the question as regards what are the principles that are being supported. Is it just anti racism (which opens a whole can of worms as regards positive action, and the teaching of white privilege and critical race theory) or is he extending those principles to include many other things. I have not accused anyone of being racist I am just accepting the fact that UKIP members are called racist by many on the left and it is the principles of the left that Southgate seems to be promoting. EDIT football players are professional and must work with any that the manager sees fit, if they cannot they are not professional and may not be part of a 'team'. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 18, 2023 19:00:20 GMT
I believe your post is about taking the knee which as the players explained was demonstrating their opposition to racism. In your link you mentioned that six of their teammates had been racially abused that season.
It seems that your UKIP player would be opposed to opposing racism towards his teammates which presumably means he condones it. The implication you have made is that if he supports UKIP he must be racist. Quite an admission. Out of interest did he vote for Brexit too.
All professional players should seek to give their all in a match but any player manager or supporter will tell you that where a team has outstanding team spirit, collectively they will perform better than a similar team that doesn’t. Your player who seems to support people abusing his team mates wouldn’t appear to be helping build that spirit.
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Post by sandypine on Oct 18, 2023 19:36:42 GMT
I believe your post is about taking the knee which as the players explained was demonstrating their opposition to racism. In your link you mentioned that six of their teammates had been racially abused that season. It seems that your UKIP player would be opposed to opposing racism towards his teammates which presumably means he condones it. The implication you have made is that if he supports UKIP he must be racist. Quite an admission. Out of interest did he vote for Brexit too. All professional players should seek to give their all in a match but any player manager or supporter will tell you that where a team has outstanding team spirit, collectively they will perform better than a similar team that doesn’t. Your player who seems to support people abusing his team mates wouldn’t appear to be helping build that spirit. I am oppose to racism of all sorts and I regard taking the knee as the support of a racist group. Herein lies the problem if one makes a symbolic gesture then it means different things to different people. If someone wears a swastika as a sign of peace, which it was, then they would have short shrift if they were in the company of Jews. In fact some people have tried to wear a swastika and despite explaining what it meant have had to remove it. So it matters little what anyone says a symbol means all that matters is what it means to others, and that seems to be the normal leftish viewpoint. This is not leftish hypocrisy appearing again is it. No matter how you try to swing it the UKIP member may be against taking the knee for his view that it was actually a divisive gesture and not an inclusive one. That player may support in total the anti racial abuse but not the gesture, so the team spirit would best be served by not making any symbolic gesture just all agreeing that racial abuse was unacceptable. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 18, 2023 19:39:43 GMT
You must prostrate yourself before the grand narrative.
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Post by buccaneer on Oct 18, 2023 20:44:12 GMT
The F.A is 100% correct If any show of solidarity means showing an Israeli flag - not a good idea If any show of solidarity means showing a Palesinian flag - not a good idea On this issue, its best that the F.A does not appear to take any side, however, if some form of show of solidarity could be made in which ALL VICTIMS and all those who are suffering from the conflict could be remembered or respected, then that would be a good idea.
In a country like ours where we have both Jewish communities and Muslim communities, we have to be sensetive and tread carefully. If a great sporting occassion or venue lit up in the colours of the Israeli flag, I have no doubt that many British Muslims would ask "who shows solidarity with the thousands of innocent Palestinian civillians killed over recent years by the Israelis" ............... And ... they would have a valid point. You perfectly highlight the moral cowardice shown by the F.A. Scared of the backlash thanks to multiculturalism. The FA can stand with Ukraine because Britain doesn't have a large enough Russian diaspora in our country to upset. Yet, when Israelis are mowed down and slaughtered the FA can't stand in solidarity with them like it did Ukraine because it's cowered by the reaction of a large Muslim contingent in Britain. What this demonstrates is that if the FA hasn't got the conviction to stand with all groups who are subject to some form of discrimination. It shouldn't stick its oar into identity politics in the first place and selectively pick and choose who to show 'solidarity' with. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 18, 2023 21:24:10 GMT
I believe your post is about taking the knee which as the players explained was demonstrating their opposition to racism. In your link you mentioned that six of their teammates had been racially abused that season. It seems that your UKIP player would be opposed to opposing racism towards his teammates which presumably means he condones it. The implication you have made is that if he supports UKIP he must be racist. Quite an admission. Out of interest did he vote for Brexit too. All professional players should seek to give their all in a match but any player manager or supporter will tell you that where a team has outstanding team spirit, collectively they will perform better than a similar team that doesn’t. Your player who seems to support people abusing his team mates wouldn’t appear to be helping build that spirit. I am oppose to racism of all sorts and I regard taking the knee as the support of a racist group. Herein lies the problem if one makes a symbolic gesture then it means different things to different people. If someone wears a swastika as a sign of peace, which it was, then they would have short shrift if they were in the company of Jews. In fact some people have tried to wear a swastika and despite explaining what it meant have had to remove it. So it matters little what anyone says a symbol means all that matters is what it means to others, and that seems to be the normal leftish viewpoint. This is not leftish hypocrisy appearing again is it. No matter how you try to swing it the UKIP member may be against taking the knee for his view that it was actually a divisive gesture and not an inclusive one. That player may support in total the anti racial abuse but not the gesture, so the team spirit would best be served by not making any symbolic gesture just all agreeing that racial abuse was unacceptable. The players explained repeatedly what their gesture was designed to do. They presumably knew what their gesture was designed to do. So if you choose to interpret it as something they have told you it is not, you appear to be accusing them of telling lies. Our UKIP member would presumably have spoken to his teamMates, understood that several of his teammates had been racially abused recently and wished to make clear their opposition to such behaviour and in all likelihood now understanding the gesture would have been very happy to support it. After all just like you, he is no doubt opposed to racism too. But if he felt strongly that he didn’t want to and explained his rationale to his teammates and made clear that just like you he abhorred racism, then his teammates would have been quite happy for him not to participate. Many teams had players who did and didn’t participate. No one was overly bothered. |
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