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Post by Bentley on Oct 24, 2023 12:39:09 GMT
Nope . It’s a lie . If you are using another energy source you cannot claim an MPG. According to your perverse logic my gas boiler produces a huge amount of heat from very little electricity. Far more than a heat pump. More word games. So not interested. From all the other posts on here it seems only you didn't understand that it meant equivalent. It’s not an equivalent, it’s a lie . You cannot quote a MPG of a vehicle that uses a primary source of energy from another source ( or any tbh). Only Eco worriers will fall for that lie. And don’t project your word games at me . As I said ,if your lies are true then my gas boiler is far more efficient than a heat pump . |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 24, 2023 12:48:07 GMT
"On a long journey (150 + miles with a full starting charge) I get about 56 mpg. Its impossible to say that's 38 miles on electric and 112 on fuel as the vehicle is cleverer than that. " Can't you determine how much petrol has been used for that 150 mile journey and how electricity? Well if the car is saying I got 56mpg then I used about 2.7 gallons on a 150 mile journey. Assuming on a large vehicle like mine you might normally expect 35mpg that would have been 4.2 gallons £16.20 + £0.85p on electric. Compared to £25.20 in an ICE vehicle equivalent. Was a while ago now but, I got the 167mpg from recording how many miles I had done over a given period compared to how much petrol I had bought. (about 4,000 miles) Over the same period I used about £110 worth of electricity (Though some of that cost was before I started only charging at night.) I might do it again just to see if its changed. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 24, 2023 13:11:46 GMT
Jeez. I've already done the calculations. You've all just all get very confused. At the average domestic price of petrol (34p.kWh) the cost/mile of an electric car is about the same as the same car running on petrol (diesel costs a bit more). That's a FACT.
Zany claims he gets electricity overnight at 7.5p/kWh from Octopus- which is about 1/5th of the normal price. But on these special tariffs you have to cost in the fact that they then charge you MORE for electricity used during the day. It can be financially advantage to do this - but only IF you use a lot of electricity overnight during the off-peak cheap price. So you need to take this into account. I've costed out in my case and it's never actually cheaper to take the off-peak tariff. But if you're just using that to cost your electric car mileage then it will certainly be much cheaper (about 1/5th) - though I suspect that you've not taken into account the higher charges for ALL your other electricity.
The figures I worked out are for using purely electric power (for the 30 miles you can do with a 14kWh battery) and a purely diesel car. On normal domestic tariffs they're about the same cost so there's no advantage in having a hybrid. But the other factor which I didn't mention is that these hybrids don't usually ALLOW you to drive in all electric or all petrol/diesel mode. The brain of the management system will always top up the battery if it's getting low using the ICE engine. And this is just about THE most inefficient way of charging a battery because you've got the 30% efficiency of the ICE engine and then you've got the 80% efficiency of the charging process and then the costs of energy wastage within the electric power train.
The simple facts are as I said. However if you run your hybrid by charging it up cheaply before every trip and then doing a tiny mileage it will be cheaper to run than an ICE car. But you would have been better off getting a pure electric car (with a small battery) rather tan carrying around an ICE engine and a gearbox. The facts state that a car with an ICE engine is cheaper to run than a similar car with a hybrid power train because it's cheaper to but and lighter. And most people with plug-in hybrids never plug them in (there was a survey on this).
I don't think you ever studied science or maths Zany because it's very hard to get you to understand simple things.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 24, 2023 14:19:22 GMT
Jeez. I've already done the calculations. You've all just all get very confused. At the average domestic price of petrol (34p.kWh) the cost/mile of an electric car is about the same as the same car running on petrol (diesel costs a bit more). That's a FACT. Zany claims he gets electricity overnight at 7.5p/kWh from Octopus- which is about 1/5th of the normal price. But on these special tariffs you have to cost in the fact that they then charge you MORE for electricity used during the day. It can be financially advantage to do this - but only IF you use a lot of electricity overnight during the off-peak cheap price. So you need to take this into account. I've costed out in my case and it's never actually cheaper to take the off-peak tariff. But if you're just using that to cost your electric car mileage then it will certainly be much cheaper (about 1/5th) - though I suspect that you've not taken into account the higher charges for ALL your other electricity. The figures I worked out are for using purely electric power (for the 30 miles you can do with a 14kWh battery) and a purely diesel car. On normal domestic tariffs they're about the same cost so there's no advantage in having a hybrid. But the other factor which I didn't mention is that these hybrids don't usually ALLOW you to drive in all electric or all petrol/diesel mode. The brain of the management system will always top up the battery if it's getting low using the ICE engine. And this is just about THE most inefficient way of charging a battery because you've got the 30% efficiency of the ICE engine and then you've got the 80% efficiency of the charging process and then the costs of energy wastage within the electric power train. The simple facts are as I said. However if you run your hybrid by charging it up cheaply before every trip and then doing a tiny mileage it will be cheaper to run than an ICE car. But you would have been better off getting a pure electric car (with a small battery) rather tan carrying around an ICE engine and a gearbox. The facts state that a car with an ICE engine is cheaper to run than a similar car with a hybrid power train because it's cheaper to but and lighter. And most people with plug-in hybrids never plug them in (there was a survey on this). I don't think you ever studied science or maths Zany because it's very hard to get you to understand simple things. As you say. You who hate EV's and have never owned one have made up some calculations. With loads of assumptions. What is Octopus's day rate? Since you claim its higher. And is it not offset by moving other energy uses to night time. For instance my heat pumps. You have written a long winded post full of you think this, you think that, with no actual figures. I think you've lost credibility on this one. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 25, 2023 6:19:06 GMT
You just seem to look at things in a very strange way. With the price of petrol/diesel at £1.50/1.60 a litre and the price of a kWh of electricity at 35p the cost of running a petrol/diesel car is about the same as a BEV. You say that you get your electricity at 7.5p/kWh so that makes it about 1/5th cost of running an ICE car. I'm very dubious that you can actually get electricity that cheap because it's almost certainly well below cost. You've misunderstood something - as you usually do.
But if you actually can get electricity that cheap it does make an electric car cheap to run. However a hybrid SUV is still the most polluting type of car that you can possibly buy - for reasons I've made clear.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2023 7:24:13 GMT
You just seem to look at things in a very strange way. With the price of petrol/diesel at £1.50/1.60 a litre and the price of a kWh of electricity at 35p the cost of running a petrol/diesel car is about the same as a BEV. You say that you get your electricity at 7.5p/kWh so that makes it about 1/5th cost of running an ICE car. I'm very dubious that you can actually get electricity that cheap because it's almost certainly well below cost. You've misunderstood something - as you usually do. Intelligent Octopus Go gives you six hours of cheap, green energy from 11.30 pm to 5.30 am every night at a super low rate of 7.5p per kWh. Your maths on ordinary electric is crap. Even at 35P a 14kWh charge costs £4.90 and gives me 38 miles. The same mileage in an ice version is 4 litres at £1.50 ltr, that's £6.00. And even standard night rate is around 16p. So £1.96 electric compared to £6.00 fuel. Thank you for helping me educate people More made up misleading guff from you. Based on the first year only if I remember correctly. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 25, 2023 7:31:48 GMT
You have to laugh at Octopus - they are certainly good at conning some people...  "Powered by 100% renewable energy from Octopus"
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 25, 2023 7:52:44 GMT
You just seem to look at things in a very strange way. With the price of petrol/diesel at £1.50/1.60 a litre and the price of a kWh of electricity at 35p the cost of running a petrol/diesel car is about the same as a BEV. You say that you get your electricity at 7.5p/kWh so that makes it about 1/5th cost of running an ICE car. I'm very dubious that you can actually get electricity that cheap because it's almost certainly well below cost. You've misunderstood something - as you usually do. Intelligent Octopus Go gives you six hours of cheap, green energy from 11.30 pm to 5.30 am every night at a super low rate of 7.5p per kWh. Your maths on ordinary electric is crap. Even at 35P a 14kWh charge costs £4.90 and gives me 38 miles. The same mileage in an ice version is 4 litres at £1.50 ltr, that's £6.00. And even standard night rate is around 16p. So £1.96 electric compared to £6.00 fuel. Thank you for helping me educate people More made up misleading guff from you. Based on the first year only if I remember correctly. Three points. Firstly the diesel version does about 10% better mpg so the figure is about £5.40, not £6. Like I said, the costs of petrol and electricity are pretty similar nowadays - for the purposes of powering cars anyway. Second, Octopus give their costs for off-peak electricity as 7.5p/kWh, but you haven't said what they charge for electricity outside this window. They MUST be charging more than the average because they're almost certainly losing money on this off-peak deal. There are no free lunches. Third, driving a 2.5 ton car that does poor mpg and has a 440kgm battery aboard - which emitted a huge amount of CO2 in its production - is about as unfriendly to the planet as you can get. Particularly as it's a diesel which churns out NOX. The best car, if you're worried about CO2 and the planet, is a petrol car with an efficient engine. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2023 17:58:47 GMT
You have to laugh at Octopus - they are certainly good at conning some people... "Powered by 100% renewable energy from Octopus"
You have to laugh at anyone who suggests a change in attitude, but that's just you. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 25, 2023 18:09:42 GMT
octopusev.com/charging/tariffIntelligent Octopus Go gives you six hours of cheap, green energy from 11.30 pm to 5.30 am every night at a super low rate of 7.5p per kWh. Your maths on ordinary electric is crap. Even at 35P a 14kWh charge costs £4.90 and gives me 38 miles. The same mileage in an ice version is 4 litres at £1.50 ltr, that's £6.00. And even standard night rate is around 16p. So £1.96 electric compared to £6.00 fuel. Thank you for helping me educate people More made up misleading guff from you. Based on the first year only if I remember correctly. Three points. Firstly the diesel version does about 10% better mpg so the figure is about £5.40, not £6. Like I said, the costs of petrol and electricity are pretty similar nowadays - for the purposes of powering cars anyway. Classic Steppen. Highest price electricity versus best mpg achievable in an ICE car. I just need repeat. And even standard night rate is around 16p. So £1.96 electric compared to £5.40 fuel. Only another £3.44 a gallon to find. Octopus day rate is currently 27.45p per kWh Its a compromise I'm happy with. I have a large comfortable luxury car that gives me 167mpg. I don't know of any petrol car that get anywhere near that. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 25, 2023 21:28:49 GMT
You have to laugh at Octopus - they are certainly good at conning some people... "Powered by 100% renewable energy from Octopus"
You have to laugh at anyone who suggests a change in attitude, but that's just you. That you believe Octopus is of absolutely no surprise to me. There is one born every minute... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2023 21:43:01 GMT
Well, Pac, don't you know those electrons can all be directed to only go to Octopussy's homes?
They have a green electron marker on them so no one mistakes them for a black coal produced one.
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Post by Bentley on Oct 25, 2023 21:47:44 GMT
It’s kind of like the ‘ my hydrid does 200 mpg on electricity ‘.😁
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 26, 2023 7:13:16 GMT
Zanygame said; "Octopus day rate is currently 27.45p per kWh"
What's their standing charge? There must be some catch.
However, you're not getting 167mpg - that's Alice in Wonderland thinking.
The "hybrid" is basically an ICE car with a small battery and electric motor that allows it to complete most of the WLTP test on electric power - and therefore give fictional mpg figures. I think the WLTP figures for your car are 170mpg, but the real world figures are below 40mpg. The fact is that the car manufacturers deliberately designed the hybrid to fool the official mpg tests - just as VW-Audi put in "cheat" software to make their diesels emit less NOX while on the test. If the ICE car manufacturers didn't make hybrids their average mpg (over their range of cars) would be much lower and they'd be fined heavily for every ICE car they made.
It's a con, of course, but it's one in which the EU is complicit - otherwise nobody would be making ICE cars.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 26, 2023 7:27:55 GMT
You have to laugh at anyone who suggests a change in attitude, but that's just you. That you believe Octopus is of absolutely no surprise to me. There is one born every minute... Where did I say I believe Octopus's claim on green energy. Its rubbish. But they do sell electricity at 7.5P a kWh at night. Your attempt to muddy the waters is becoming your only avenue. |
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