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Post by zanygame on Feb 14, 2024 8:31:38 GMT
It's going to be interesting - no EV manufacturer is making money on building and selling cars at the current premium prices we have seen. If they are now in a price war for market share I think we will see a fair few go under in the coming years. The US already has restrictions on cheap Chinese cars and it looks like the EU is going to follow suit - which is not helping the Chinese economy which looks to now be trapped in a deflationary spiral.. ..interesting times.. And some. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 14, 2024 9:42:18 GMT
Car dealers slash EV prices by up to a QUARTER in frantic bid to stimulate sales...... With demand for electric vehicles stalling in Britain, car dealers across the country are being forced to slash prices in a desperate bid to shift their existing stock. The average discount on a new EV has increased by 204 per cent since last January, according to market analysis by What Car?, as dealerships are going to extraordinary lengths to stimulate sales.
None of the EVs listed in the Mail article appear in the list of top-selling electric vehicles in the UK in 2023. The heavy discounting may just be an indication that these models are not in demand. Although I wouldn't call discounts in the range of 7 to 9% particularly heavy or an indication that dealers are frantic to unload these cars.
Tesla Model Y (35,899)
MG4 (21,715)
Audi Q4 e-tron (16,757)
Tesla Model 3 (13,536)
Polestar 2 (12,542)
Volkswagen ID.3 (10,295)
Kia Niro EV (10,084)
BMW i4 (8940)
Volkswagen ID.4 (8495)
Skoda Enyaq (8136)
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Post by jonksy on Feb 14, 2024 9:44:39 GMT
Car dealers slash EV prices by up to a QUARTER in frantic bid to stimulate sales...... With demand for electric vehicles stalling in Britain, car dealers across the country are being forced to slash prices in a desperate bid to shift their existing stock. The average discount on a new EV has increased by 204 per cent since last January, according to market analysis by What Car?, as dealerships are going to extraordinary lengths to stimulate sales.
None of the EVs listed in the Mail article appear in the list of top-selling electric vehicles in the UK in 2023. The heavy discounting may just be an indication that these models are not in demand.
Tesla Model Y (35,899)
MG4 (21,715)
Audi Q4 e-tron (16,757)
Tesla Model 3 (13,536)
Polestar 2 (12,542)
Volkswagen ID.3 (10,295)
Kia Niro EV (10,084)
BMW i4 (8940)
Volkswagen ID.4 (8495)
Skoda Enyaq (8136)
Well they wouldn't be in the top 10 would they? If no one is purchasing them. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 14, 2024 12:42:20 GMT
It's going to be interesting - no EV manufacturer is making money on building and selling cars at the current premium prices we have seen. If they are now in a price war for market share I think we will see a fair few go under in the coming years. The US already has restrictions on cheap Chinese cars and it looks like the EU is going to follow suit - which is not helping the Chinese economy which looks to now be trapped in a deflationary spiral.. ..interesting times.. BYD are now operating in profit. Admittedly it is a big money game. Mind you, Google lost money for years. They spin it differently in the propaganda though if it is an American firm. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 14, 2024 15:24:25 GMT
It's going to be interesting - no EV manufacturer is making money on building and selling cars at the current premium prices we have seen. If they are now in a price war for market share I think we will see a fair few go under in the coming years. The US already has restrictions on cheap Chinese cars and it looks like the EU is going to follow suit - which is not helping the Chinese economy which looks to now be trapped in a deflationary spiral.. ..interesting times.. BYD are now operating in profit. Admittedly it is a big money game. Mind you, Google lost money for years. They spin it differently in the propaganda though if it is an American firm. Hmmm. It's very hard to say if Chinese companies are profitable or not because they're so heavily subsidised by the Chinese govt. In practice all Chinese companies are profit making because it's illegal for them to go bust. But they probably get their batteries from a state run provider for free. In the real world though most auto manufacturers are losing money on all cars. I was reading n article in the financial pages which pointed out that automobile manufacturers are really just there to give their finance and leasing companies something to "leverage". The money is made by their finance company when they finance the loan/lease/PCP on vehicles sold. And these leases/PCPs are not going very well with BEVs because depreciation is so high. As I said before, ultimately Tesla's BEVs are only profitable because they sell carbon credits to the traditional ICE companies. When the traditional ICE companies stop making ICE cars they won't need carbon credits - and they also won't make any profits. It's so predictable. Unless the govt wants to start subsidising BEVs (like China does) they'll go bust. Short Tesla! |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 14, 2024 15:49:19 GMT
BYD are now operating in profit. Admittedly it is a big money game. Mind you, Google lost money for years. They spin it differently in the propaganda though if it is an American firm. Hmmm. It's very hard to say if Chinese companies are profitable or not because they're so heavily subsidised by the Chinese govt. In practice all Chinese companies are profit making because it's illegal for them to go bust. But they probably get their batteries from a state run provider for free. In the real world though most auto manufacturers are losing money on all cars. I was reading n article in the financial pages which pointed out that automobile manufacturers are really just there to give their finance and leasing companies something to "leverage". The money is made by their finance company when they finance the loan/lease/PCP on vehicles sold. And these leases/PCPs are not going very well with BEVs because depreciation is so high. As I said before, ultimately Tesla's BEVs are only profitable because they sell carbon credits to the traditional ICE companies. When the traditional ICE companies stop making ICE cars they won't need carbon credits - and they also won't make any profits. It's so predictable. Unless the govt wants to start subsidising BEVs (like China does) they'll go bust. Short Tesla! I think what I heard was BYD are turning a profit in the sense of money out > money in, like we understood profit back in the days of sanity. the figure is it takes 1/2 million electric cars to be produced before you are operating at sufficient economy of scale to break even.
Regarding government subsidy, well all governments subsidise large industrial operations. Our nuclear industry would never have got off the ground without subsidy. In China the subsidy comes indirectly in the form of cheap government loans for targetted uses such as R & D and tax breaks as well. You see all economies print money, but in the UK the printed money has been invested in a property bubble, where in China it goes into things that the government assess are the most likely to increase productivity. The key to running a non-inflationary economy is to balance increases in the money supply with increases in productivity. The problem though in how we do it is the money goes into the financial markets and is used to speculate, a bit like gambling. The Chinese government have this method of assessing the real end benefits of all investment, as per how does the country change in total through having it compared to not having it. This methodology eliminates the problems of economic distortions in the market causing wrongful valuations in weighing up the alternatives. We Brits are too simple-minded.
Yes i understand your point about leases, spares, servicing, insurance, extended warranties and all the rest of the parasites that live off the car. You can sum it up by saying you make more money defrauding someone with sharp suits and sales shit than you do in producing the goods. We must kick this habit and encourage manufacturers.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 14, 2024 18:31:45 GMT
It's going to be interesting - no EV manufacturer is making money on building and selling cars at the current premium prices we have seen. If they are now in a price war for market share I think we will see a fair few go under in the coming years. The US already has restrictions on cheap Chinese cars and it looks like the EU is going to follow suit - which is not helping the Chinese economy which looks to now be trapped in a deflationary spiral.. ..interesting times.. BYD are now operating in profit. Admittedly it is a big money game. Mind you, Google lost money for years. They spin it differently in the propaganda though if it is an American firm. BYD Group make a profit - it remains to be seen whether the EV division is profitable. However given the opaque nature of businesses in China that information may never come out. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 14, 2024 19:03:09 GMT
BYD are now operating in profit. Admittedly it is a big money game. Mind you, Google lost money for years. They spin it differently in the propaganda though if it is an American firm. BYD Group make a profit - it remains to be seen whether the EV division is profitable. However given the opaque nature of businesses in China that information may never come out. No it does not remain to be seen because it is already being seen. The trouble with you is your sources are highly uninformative regarding the true state of play over in China. They and CATL are very well positioned to make a lot of money. Many smaller Chinese EV makers however are going bust. There are about 150 in the market, but naturally may of these will be shaken out due to fierce competition. You can scoff all you like, but the true picture is China is poised to take the lead in global car manufacture. The US is doing battle with them, but right now things are tilting in the China direction. Many US car manufacturers are in trouble. It's the switch to EV which has meant they no longer had a built in market advantage regarding technology with long experience and development. China's government on the other hand had planned this industry, so they are keen to see it break through. If the government wants something in China most leading firms take note and channel their own resources in that direction. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 14, 2024 19:08:40 GMT
Car dealers slash EV prices by up to a QUARTER in frantic bid to stimulate sales...... With demand for electric vehicles stalling in Britain, car dealers across the country are being forced to slash prices in a desperate bid to shift their existing stock. The average discount on a new EV has increased by 204 per cent since last January, according to market analysis by What Car?, as dealerships are going to extraordinary lengths to stimulate sales.
None of the EVs listed in the Mail article appear in the list of top-selling electric vehicles in the UK in 2023. The heavy discounting may just be an indication that these models are not in demand. Although I wouldn't call discounts in the range of 7 to 9% particularly heavy or an indication that dealers are frantic to unload these cars.
Tesla Model Y (35,899)
MG4 (21,715)
Audi Q4 e-tron (16,757)
Tesla Model 3 (13,536)
Polestar 2 (12,542)
Volkswagen ID.3 (10,295)
Kia Niro EV (10,084)
BMW i4 (8940)
Volkswagen ID.4 (8495)
Skoda Enyaq (8136)
MG is now Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation.
As far as I'm aware they did a bloody good job reviving that old British firm. We sold it for £53m, and now it is number two. Well done!
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 14, 2024 19:24:13 GMT
I wonder how many of the punters that go for an MG realise they are made in China. Apart from which, they are by far the least expensive of the Top Ten.
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Post by zanygame on Feb 14, 2024 19:44:53 GMT
I wonder how many of the punters that go for an MG realise they are made in China. Apart from which, they are by far the least expensive of the Top Ten. My son has bought one, its very nice. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 14, 2024 20:06:39 GMT
I wonder how many of the punters that go for an MG realise they are made in China. Apart from which, they are by far the least expensive of the Top Ten. Sales figures in this box on this page tell an interesting story.
Check the covid years.
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 14, 2024 20:48:42 GMT
I wonder how many of the punters that go for an MG realise they are made in China. Apart from which, they are by far the least expensive of the Top Ten. My son has bought one, its very nice. I had two new tyres fitted at Kwik Fit today. As they were being fitted I chatted to the chap on the till in reception, I asked him if there's any difference between tyres for proper cars and tyres for EV's. Oh indeed there is, he said. Tyres for EV's are more expensive because EV's are heavier than petrol/diesel cars, he continued... also, you cant change one or two tyres on an electric car, you have to change all four! Sadly our chat was cut short by a fitter putting his head around a door calling Mr Rackham your car is ready. To be fair, I don't think it's that much of an issue that EV tyres are more expensive than proper car tyres, I mean lets face it, you're not going to put that much mileage on an EV are you. The battery is going to pack up or burst into flames well before the tyres are worn out. |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 14, 2024 20:53:10 GMT
My son has bought one, its very nice. I had two new tyres fitted at Kwik Fit today. As they were being fitted I chatted to the chap on the till in reception, I asked him if there's any difference between tyres for proper cars and tyres for EV's. Oh indeed there is, he said. Tyres for EV's are more expensive because EV's are heavier than petrol/diesel cars, he continued... also, you cant change one or two tyres on an electric car, you have to change all four! Sadly our chat was cut short by a fitter putting his head around a door calling Mr Rackham your car is ready. To be fair, I don't think it's that much of an issue that EV tyres are more expensive than proper car tyres, I mean lets face it, you're not going to put that much mileage on an EV are you. The battery is going to pack up or burst into flames well before the tyres are worn out. I'm glad he made you happy. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 14, 2024 22:04:54 GMT
"The chap on the till at Kwik-Fit" Nothing like getting the inside scoop from a subject matter expert eh.
I wonder if the same expert could explain why a BMW M5 needs different and more expensive tyres than a Ford Fiesta? Couldn't be anything to do with greater vehicle weight, much greater and instant application of torque and substantially quicker acceleration could it?
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