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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 6, 2024 16:46:45 GMT
I occasionally drive down to Dorset, it's more or less a 400 mile return trip which I can easilly do without refuelling and that's in a 3.6 V8. No range anxiety no stopping. But if I did need to stop for fuel, it would take five minutes not two hours for a part charge. The key word is 'occasionally'. If you aren't a motorway warrior or someone making frequent cross-continental journeys (say more than a few a year) then you should have no trouble in a modern BEV.
How many miles do you drive a month anyway? As you are a pensioner (I think) I would imagine it's quite a low number.
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 6, 2024 16:58:33 GMT
I occasionally drive down to Dorset, it's more or less a 400 mile return trip which I can easilly do without refuelling and that's in a 3.6 V8. No range anxiety no stopping. But if I did need to stop for fuel, it would take five minutes not two hours for a part charge. The key word is 'occasionally'. If you aren't a motorway warrior or someone making frequent cross-continental journeys (say more than a few a year) then you should have no trouble in a modern BEV.
How many miles do you drive a month anyway? As you are a pensioner (I think) I would imagine it's quite a low number.
It's true we don't do much mileage, having two cars is a bit of an extravagance tbh, but I wont be bullied into buying a BEV. I don't like them, I don't trust them, they're too expensive, range is dramatically reduced in cold weather, and they are not nearly as green as eco types would have you believe. I'm not an OAP btw, not quite.
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Post by Orac on Feb 6, 2024 17:00:37 GMT
Of course many if not most users will need the 'missing functionality', which I take to mean the ability to make occasional longer trips. I believe I dealt with that scenario in my second paragraph above. Not really dealt with. If you can get your car to an unoccupied charge point for half an hour than that isn't 'too bad' ( only half an hour) - but that really is the optimistic scenario and one you can concern yourself with as the power drains in your battery. The fact that BEV cars have to sit for extended periods while refueling means this vacancy will be no certain prospect and, if there is one person in front of you, then any schedule is hosed by another half an hour. This is another compounding problem. Your whole analysis re short journeys relies on home charging - so, while I breezed over the assumption earlier, this is in reality another major issue (functionality absence). Nobody talks about home refueling Ic cars for a reason..
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 6, 2024 17:03:41 GMT
What do you see as the major issue with home charging?
Btw I had a butchers at my local Tesla Supercharger last week. It was around lunchtime but only three of the 12 chargepoints were in use. Might this be another imaginary problem?
Next time we go to the Big City I'll take another look and take a snap this time. There's probably one near you so you can check it out for yourself.
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Post by Orac on Feb 6, 2024 17:10:48 GMT
What do you see as the major issue with home charging? Unavailability for many users and no sensible way to make it available. Of course, even if the weak technology (batteries) do increase their overall functionality by orders of magnitude, we then run into the next problem in the chain (the grid itself or the delivery mechanism). It's intractable and for the foreseeable future it will be a significantly weaker technology than what we have with ICE currently.
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 6, 2024 17:14:24 GMT
Yes, that's true. People who can't charge at home should defer getting a BEV until an adequate public charging infrastructure is available in their locality (which may be never).
I think grid capacity is indeed the most significant concern with a large-scale adoption of BEVs. All the rest is mice-nuts.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 6, 2024 17:15:02 GMT
What do you see as the major issue with home charging?
Btw I had a butchers at my local Tesla Supercharger last week. It was around lunchtime but only three of the 12 chargepoints were in use. Might this be another imaginary problem?
Next time we go to the Big City I'll take another look and take a snap this time. There's probably one near you so you can check it out for yourself.
Hotels will fit them as well as part of the package. They are always trying to point-score over each other. It will come, but it is early days now. As soon as we reach say 50% we will see loads of them and the chargers themselves will be cheaper.
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Post by Orac on Feb 6, 2024 17:26:20 GMT
Yes, that's true. People who can't charge at home should defer getting a BEV until an adequate public charging infrastructure is available in their locality (which may be never). I think grid capacity is indeed the most significant concern with a large-scale adoption of BEVs. All the rest is mice-nuts. That's millions of people. - oh and the charge problem is 'not an issue' because everyone will recharge overnight at home. It's pretty clear you have painted your brain dayglo. Fingers crossed the adults can reign this in before it becomes a total fiasco.
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 6, 2024 17:42:51 GMT
As you know already, I'm a big fan of culling the numbers, and one of the side-effects of the BEV revolution will have that effect.
I'm not just thinking of over-crowded cities like London where in my view owning and using a car regularly is a sign of incipient insanity. I'm also thinking of the pleasant suburban areas like the one where my wife and her sister own a house. It's just a fairly normal street with perhaps 50 semis lining both sides. When the houses were built in the 30s there was an option to add an Austin 7-sized garage on the side which most owners have done.
But the facilities for car storage are now completely inadequate so a majority, I'd say 80 percent or more of owners, have concreted over their front gardens to accommodate two vehicles (sometimes more). In addition, the housing crisis appears to have discouraged grown-up children from leaving the nest so they continue to roost at Hotel Mama. Since their vehicles, if not able to be accommodated on what was once the front lawn, are now parked on the street, more often than not halfway on the pavement, a necessary arrangement otherwise the road would be blocked for delivery vans and the dustbin men.
I was reading earlier from the RAC that 25% of registered vehicles - that's around nine million cars - are parked on the street so to the extent that a switch to BEVs can make all that go away is goodness, in my view.
YMMV.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 6, 2024 17:53:49 GMT
'Orders of magnitude' better is overegging the pudding. As example my current Audi diesel with its 58 litre tank has a full tank range of around 950km. Real-life BEV ranges are now in the 500km+ range.what models are these?
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 6, 2024 18:10:40 GMT
Audi Q4, BMW i7, BMW iX, Fisker Ocean, Hyundai Ioniq 6, Hyundai Nexo, Kia EV9, Lotus Eletre, MB EQE, MB EQS, Polestar 2, Polestar 3, Skoda Enyaq, Tesla 3, Tesla Y, Tesla S, Tesla X, VW ID.4, VW ID.5, VW ID.7, Volvo C40 Recharge, Volvo XC40 Recharge, Volvo EX90. Selected models only.
Furious googling sounds in background
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 6, 2024 18:35:04 GMT
I know that they claim to have that sort of range but what is the real world range?
For example Tesla Model 3 Long Range claims to be good for 337 miles - however the real world range is just 250 miles - hence TResla are now the subject of a class action Lawsuit in the US for lying about the range of their vehicles.
And this is before we get to bad weather when the range falls rapidly even more..
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Post by jonksy on Feb 6, 2024 19:47:50 GMT
I know that they claim to have that sort of range but what is the real world range? For example Tesla Model 3 Long Range claims to be good for 337 miles - however the real world range is just 250 miles - hence TResla are now the subject of a class action Lawsuit in the US for lying about the range of their vehicles. And this is before we get to bad weather when the range falls rapidly even more.. Tesla vastly overstates its vehicles’ range, report states.....
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Post by Bentley on Feb 6, 2024 19:50:44 GMT
Vehicle manufacturers overrated the MPG so it’s obvious they will overrate the range on EVs.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 6, 2024 23:43:02 GMT
As you know already, I'm a big fan of culling the numbers, and one of the side-effects of the BEV revolution will have that effect. I'm not just thinking of over-crowded cities like London where in my view owning and using a car regularly is a sign of incipient insanity. I'm also thinking of the pleasant suburban areas like the one where my wife and her sister own a house. It's just a fairly normal street with perhaps 50 semis lining both sides. When the houses were built in the 30s there was an option to add an Austin 7-sized garage on the side which most owners have done. But the facilities for car storage are now completely inadequate so a majority, I'd say 80 percent or more of owners, have concreted over their front gardens to accommodate two vehicles (sometimes more). In addition, the housing crisis appears to have discouraged grown-up children from leaving the nest so they continue to roost at Hotel Mama. Since their vehicles, if not able to be accommodated on what was once the front lawn, are now parked on the street, more often than not halfway on the pavement, a necessary arrangement otherwise the road would be blocked for delivery vans and the dustbin men. I was reading earlier from the RAC that 25% of registered vehicles - that's around nine million cars - are parked on the street so to the extent that a switch to BEVs can make all that go away is goodness, in my view. YMMV. Where I was brought up the standard thing was a driveway that looped around so you had two entrances to it and a double garage plus a front garden. In addition you could easily park on the road, which was good if you were holding a party. The last house I had down that way had such a driveway. The thing was the UK used to be a relatively rich county. The new ones they build though really lack character.
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