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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 10, 2024 12:25:35 GMT
Assuming you refer to byproducts of fossil fuels you are correct that is an important consideration. At the present time there are no viable substitutes for many of the hydrocarbon-based feedstocks for things like inorganic fertiliser.
All the more reason we should phase out burning the stuff for fuel, it's too important a resource as the Shah of Iran pointed out during the first oil crisis 50 years ago.
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Post by sheepy on Mar 10, 2024 12:25:50 GMT
How does that work for the thousands of byproducts and what exactly is the timeline? There would be more oil available for all the by products if we stopped burning it. A sweeping statement Zany, how so? if just stopping oil is the plan.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 12:37:26 GMT
There would be more oil available for all the by products if we stopped burning it. A sweeping statement Zany, how so? if just stopping oil is the plan. I think just stop oil means just stop burning oil. Most people could work that out.
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Post by sheepy on Mar 10, 2024 12:38:37 GMT
A sweeping statement Zany, how so? if just stopping oil is the plan. I think just stop oil means just stop burning oil. Most people could work that out. I don't think they could for one minute, so I guess just stop oil must say so then?
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Post by Orac on Mar 10, 2024 13:06:01 GMT
I suspect the demands wont stop until progress and innovation is crippled and most people are living hand to mouth and completely dependent on the state.
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Post by Orac on Mar 10, 2024 13:11:17 GMT
Assuming you refer to byproducts of fossil fuels you are correct that is an important consideration. At the present time there are no viable substitutes for many of the hydrocarbon-based feedstocks for things like inorganic fertiliser. All the more reason we should phase out burning the stuff for fuel, it's too important a resource as the Shah of Iran pointed out during the first oil crisis 50 years ago. This is all true and in a perfect world we wouldn't need to burn oil because the temperature would always be ideal, everything we needed to live comfortably would be laying about on the ground and the topological nature of space would mean every point in space was just one leisurely step from every other. However, I firmly believe that, whatever policy you choose, you should select one to fit the reality you inhabit rather than the other way around'.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 10, 2024 14:43:25 GMT
The reality we inhabit is one in which, for political purposes, the general population is encouraged to believe there is an entitlement to essentially unlimited material consumption and personal mobility on the North American model based on access to a corncupia of resources which are essentially infinite in scale. Should national resources not quite measure up then the market will provide for any shortfall, as it always has.
Heaven forbid that anyone should be disappointed if/when the market - and by extension - the politicians are unable to deliver on their promise.
The general population of course now includes not only the slowly declining numbers of 'natives' - around fifty million or so as of now - but the many millions of immigrants who have come to hear about 'the reality' and decided to join us to get a slice of it for themselves. We're told there'll be twenty million or so of them in just a couple of years, every one of whom will be hankering for same North American-style levels of consumption that politicians and big business are dangling before the natives.
Just as resources are thought to be infinite in scale so are the numbers who will be arriving to take advantage of them. That's the reality.
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Post by Orac on Mar 10, 2024 14:53:19 GMT
The reality we inhabit is one in which, for political purposes, the general population is encouraged to believe there is an entitlement to essentially unlimited material consumption and personal mobility on the North American model based on access to a corncupia of resources which are essentially infinite in scale. Should national resources not quite measure up then the market will provide for any shortfall, as it always has. Heaven forbid that anyone should be disappointed if/when the market - and by extension - the politicians are unable to deliver on their promise. The general population of course now includes not only the slowly declining numbers of 'natives' - around fifty million or so as of now - but the many millions of immigrants who have come to hear about 'the reality' and decided to join us to get a slice of it for themselves. We're told there'll be twenty million or so of them in just a couple of years, every one of whom will be hankering for same North American-style levels of consumption that politicians and big business are dangling before the natives. Just as resources are thought to be infinite in scale so are the numbers who will be arriving to take advantage of them. That's the reality. I don't have zero sympathy with your aims here. However, if we are going to bend our population over into grinding poverty, subservience and state dependence in order to deter migration, i think the government should make its net zero aims a bit clearer. It's almost like i'm being forced to read between the lines to see what is intended. - also, why not make a start on migration by simply by blocking entry to new arrivals now? A naive reading of the policy suggests they intend to both bend the uk population into a stagnant subservience and also continue to encourage as much immigration as possible. I would encourage the government to be a little less cryptic when advertising their policy - i'm an adult, i can take it.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 10, 2024 16:34:12 GMT
Hardly - we have cut CO2 emissions more than any other developed country. We are also too small as a country to have any practical effect on climate change so we are damaging our economy and the future prosperity of the young in this country by this virtue signalling nonsense that we need to go further and faster than anyone else. As I have told you before we have cut more because we were worse than most other developed countries. I do tire of repeating the same information endlessly to people who just give the same responses over and over. Yes - and now we have done our bit. We are miles below many other countries in CO2 emissions per capita - way below USA, China, Germany, Holland, Canada, Australia, Russia and Japan. We are only slightly worse than France who get 70% of their electricity from Nuclear. This is not a race - we do not get a prize for coming first. All we get is provide entertainment for other countries who laugh at us bankrupting ourselves for no reason.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 19:21:27 GMT
I suspect the demands wont stop until progress and innovation is crippled and most people are living hand to mouth and completely dependent on the state. Well you would.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 19:23:36 GMT
As I have told you before we have cut more because we were worse than most other developed countries. I do tire of repeating the same information endlessly to people who just give the same responses over and over. Yes - and now we have done our bit. We are miles below many other countries in CO2 emissions per capita - way below USA, China, Germany, Holland, Canada, Australia, Russia and Japan. We are only slightly worse than France who get 70% of their electricity from Nuclear. This is not a race - we do not get a prize for coming first. All we get is provide entertainment for other countries who laugh at us bankrupting ourselves for no reason. Yes but it is a race to save the planet where everyone should do whatever they can. In any case my "we" is not restricted to the UK. I mean "we" the human race.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 19:25:43 GMT
The reality we inhabit is one in which, for political purposes, the general population is encouraged to believe there is an entitlement to essentially unlimited material consumption and personal mobility on the North American model based on access to a corncupia of resources which are essentially infinite in scale. Should national resources not quite measure up then the market will provide for any shortfall, as it always has. Heaven forbid that anyone should be disappointed if/when the market - and by extension - the politicians are unable to deliver on their promise. The general population of course now includes not only the slowly declining numbers of 'natives' - around fifty million or so as of now - but the many millions of immigrants who have come to hear about 'the reality' and decided to join us to get a slice of it for themselves. We're told there'll be twenty million or so of them in just a couple of years, every one of whom will be hankering for same North American-style levels of consumption that politicians and big business are dangling before the natives. Just as resources are thought to be infinite in scale so are the numbers who will be arriving to take advantage of them. That's the reality. Well said.
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 10, 2024 21:14:37 GMT
The reality we inhabit is one in which, for political purposes, the general population is encouraged to believe there is an entitlement to essentially unlimited material consumption and personal mobility on the North American model based on access to a corncupia of resources which are essentially infinite in scale. Should national resources not quite measure up then the market will provide for any shortfall, as it always has. Heaven forbid that anyone should be disappointed if/when the market - and by extension - the politicians are unable to deliver on their promise. The general population of course now includes not only the slowly declining numbers of 'natives' - around fifty million or so as of now - but the many millions of immigrants who have come to hear about 'the reality' and decided to join us to get a slice of it for themselves. We're told there'll be twenty million or so of them in just a couple of years, every one of whom will be hankering for same North American-style levels of consumption that politicians and big business are dangling before the natives. Just as resources are thought to be infinite in scale so are the numbers who will be arriving to take advantage of them. That's the reality. Dan, the reality is population growth will kill humanity. Every day 80 million people people are added to the global population and they all need food, water, power, resources. Rare earth mineral mining is in it's infancy but to satisfy demand for electric car batteries large areas of Africa and South America have already been devastated and mining companies are about to start exploiting deposits in pristine rainforests in the Philippines. Where are the activists, where are the oh so virtuous demonstrators who apparently care about mother earth? Out of sight out of mind I guess. Attenborough quite rightly said the most dangerous threat to humankind is population growth. And everyone knows that, yet there isn't a single politician or organisation in the world who will openly suggest population controls.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 10, 2024 21:40:51 GMT
I don't believe population growth is an existential problem for us in the west, except to the extent that our political class allows the surplus populations of the rest of the world to move here.
The peoples of European descent, who at the moment comprise just 15% of the global population, hold collective title to 40% of the global land area including all the temperate climatic zones which are agriculturally the most productive. This is why so many of the rest of the world aspire to move here.
But you're right. The one topic which is absolutely taboo in western political circles is population growth. In the UK. for example there has not been a Royal Commission on Population since 1949. Mainstream politicians simply won't touch it.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 21:53:07 GMT
The reality we inhabit is one in which, for political purposes, the general population is encouraged to believe there is an entitlement to essentially unlimited material consumption and personal mobility on the North American model based on access to a corncupia of resources which are essentially infinite in scale. Should national resources not quite measure up then the market will provide for any shortfall, as it always has. Heaven forbid that anyone should be disappointed if/when the market - and by extension - the politicians are unable to deliver on their promise. The general population of course now includes not only the slowly declining numbers of 'natives' - around fifty million or so as of now - but the many millions of immigrants who have come to hear about 'the reality' and decided to join us to get a slice of it for themselves. We're told there'll be twenty million or so of them in just a couple of years, every one of whom will be hankering for same North American-style levels of consumption that politicians and big business are dangling before the natives. Just as resources are thought to be infinite in scale so are the numbers who will be arriving to take advantage of them. That's the reality. Dan, the reality is population growth will kill humanity. Every day 80 million people people are added to the global population and they all need food, water, power, resources. Rare earth mineral mining is in it's infancy but to satisfy demand for electric car batteries large areas of Africa and South America have already been devastated and mining companies are about to start exploiting deposits in pristine rainforests in the Philippines. Where are the activists, where are the oh so virtuous demonstrators who apparently care about mother earth? Out of sight out of mind I guess. Attenborough quite rightly said the most dangerous threat to humankind is population growth. And everyone knows that, yet there isn't a single politician or organisation in the world who will openly suggest population controls. What should these activists demand? A cull? Instead what they are trying to do is make it possible for the planet to support so many humans while the growth stabilises. But if you think a cull is better feel free to step up. As for South America and Africa being devastated. Where were you when they mined Copper and Cobalt long before electric cars.
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