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Post by zanygame on Mar 5, 2024 19:21:38 GMT
Good luck getting 2 tons in your boot. I can get 5 tons in mine. And it doesn't decrease the range even with the heater wipes and headlight on plus towing a trailer.. Fiat 500? |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 6, 2024 7:46:35 GMT
My point is that it's difficult to say what would happen to the Earth if some component of the Earth's system were eliminated. The Earth is a complicated system that tends to remain reasonably stable. If something potentially catastrophic happens the Earth may flip to a new stable state or it may resist the change using one or more of its many stabilisers. So making statements about what would happen if some change occurred simply by taking account of that one change is naive - because the minute you change one factor other factors change also. It's like politicians saying that if they put up income tax they'll get more tax revenue - they might not because people will change their behaviour. You need to model the whole system. But we can't do that with the Earth because we don't understand how it works. I don't know what would happen if we eliminated all CO2 - except that plants and most animals would disappear.
If there was no Co2 in earths atmosphere the planet would be too cold to support human life.The fact you won't say the words Co2 causes warming on Earth shows the weakness of your position. You really have trouble understanding science zany. I must have told you 100 times that the Earth is a system - and a very complex one at that. It's not a simple system like, say, a box with some gas in it and a source of UV light . In this simple system there are only two factors at work - the gas in the box and the UV. In this system you can say that if you increase the concentration of CO2 in the gas you will increase the retained heat from the UV light. Indeed John Tyndall derived an equation (in about 1850) to represent how the warming is related to the CO2 concentration - and that equation still stands today. But the Earth has a large number of processes (all going on at the same time and interacting with each other) and these processes combine to make the Earth a relatively stable system. You can change the concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere and there are other factors that will intervene to prevent the Earth warming. That's why no one has ever demonstrated CO2 warming on Earth (except in a desert). If the Earth weren't like this it would have frozen or burned up many millennia ago. In order to work out what will happen to Earth if we eliminated all CO2 it's simply idiotic to just treat the Earth like a simple box and a UV light source. You actually have to model the whole thing, which is WAY beyond what scientists can do today - or ever, probably. Until you can do that no one knows what effect eliminating CO2 would have. I actually suspect that what would happen is that the Earth would burn up. That's because most plants would die leaving a desert. But no one knows. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 6, 2024 7:54:58 GMT
Good article explaining why electric trucks are a dipshit idea..  |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 6, 2024 7:56:47 GMT
Prices are falling because demand for BEVs is falling - they're having to cut prices to sell them. The fact remains that no one is making money out of selling BEVs. The traditional car companies subsidise their sale from profits made on ICE cars and Tesla only makes money by selling carbon credits to the traditional car companies. As Dyson said, no one can make a profits from selling BEVs. As for the rest of your stuff the problem with having a vast battery is that the car will be very heavy, very big and very expensive. And you're carrying around that battery all the time (whether you need it or not) which makes the car very inefficient and very vulnerable to being written off if it has a minor shunt. And the heavier the car is the more rubber pollution it churns out - and rubber pollution is rapidly becoming the most dangerous pollution from cars. It's everywhere. That and a massive recession. Oh look over there a squirrel... There's no massive recession. The simple fact is that no one has ever managed to make a profit out of selling pure electric cars. They're all sold at a loss (which is subsidised either by governments or by sale of ICE cars). As for pollution from ICE cars there isn't any. They emit CO2 and water - and some tyre rubber. The real polluters are BEVs which generate very large amounts of rubber pollution which gets everywhere and lasts a long time. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 6, 2024 8:05:48 GMT
Good article explaining why electric trucks are a dipshit idea.. It's just astonishing that our govt simply ignores the vast amount of money that needs to be put into expanding the National Grid and building all the nuclear power stations (estimated 5 like Hinkley C) necessary to support this electric stuff. It's completely impossible. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 6, 2024 19:30:15 GMT
But some things are known.
If there was no Co2 in earths atmosphere the planet would be too cold to support human life.The fact you won't say the words Co2 causes warming on Earth shows the weakness of your position. You really have trouble understanding science zany. I must have told you 100 times that the Earth is a system - and a very complex one at that. It's not a simple system like, say, a box with some gas in it and a source of UV light . In this simple system there are only two factors at work - the gas in the box and the UV. In this system you can say that if you increase the concentration of CO2 in the gas you will increase the retained heat from the UV light. Indeed John Tyndall derived an equation (in about 1850) to represent how the warming is related to the CO2 concentration - and that equation still stands today. But the Earth has a large number of processes (all going on at the same time and interacting with each other) and these processes combine to make the Earth a relatively stable system. You can change the concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere and there are other factors that will intervene to prevent the Earth warming. That's why no one has ever demonstrated CO2 warming on Earth (except in a desert). If the Earth weren't like this it would have frozen or burned up many millennia ago. In order to work out what will happen to Earth if we eliminated all CO2 it's simply idiotic to just treat the Earth like a simple box and a UV light source. You actually have to model the whole thing, which is WAY beyond what scientists can do today - or ever, probably. Until you can do that no one knows what effect eliminating CO2 would have. I actually suspect that what would happen is that the Earth would burn up. That's because most plants would die leaving a desert. But no one knows. you keep repeating the same vagaries, laced with insults Despite all the other factors does Co2 cause the planet to be warmer or not? Each time to refuse to answer your argument weakens, you wouldn't last 2 minutes on a science forum. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 6, 2024 19:31:42 GMT
That and a massive recession. Oh look over there a squirrel... There's no massive recession. The simple fact is that no one has ever managed to make a profit out of selling pure electric cars. They're all sold at a loss (which is subsidised either by governments or by sale of ICE cars). As for pollution from ICE cars there isn't any. They emit CO2 and water - and some tyre rubber. The real polluters are BEVs which generate very large amounts of rubber pollution which gets everywhere and lasts a long time. Jeez how unaware can you be. |
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Post by wapentake on Mar 6, 2024 22:01:35 GMT
Don’t know about charging them may be more expensive than you think stopping one will be  link. Lucky to get out in one piece. |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 7, 2024 2:37:14 GMT
Don’t know about charging them may be more expensive than you think stopping one will be link. Lucky to get out in one piece. A minute silence for sheep hooked into 500 pounds a month 5 year leasing agreement on negative equity EV junk ..........computer says no! |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 7, 2024 7:56:42 GMT
You really have trouble understanding science zany. I must have told you 100 times that the Earth is a system - and a very complex one at that. It's not a simple system like, say, a box with some gas in it and a source of UV light . In this simple system there are only two factors at work - the gas in the box and the UV. In this system you can say that if you increase the concentration of CO2 in the gas you will increase the retained heat from the UV light. Indeed John Tyndall derived an equation (in about 1850) to represent how the warming is related to the CO2 concentration - and that equation still stands today. But the Earth has a large number of processes (all going on at the same time and interacting with each other) and these processes combine to make the Earth a relatively stable system. You can change the concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere and there are other factors that will intervene to prevent the Earth warming. That's why no one has ever demonstrated CO2 warming on Earth (except in a desert). If the Earth weren't like this it would have frozen or burned up many millennia ago. In order to work out what will happen to Earth if we eliminated all CO2 it's simply idiotic to just treat the Earth like a simple box and a UV light source. You actually have to model the whole thing, which is WAY beyond what scientists can do today - or ever, probably. Until you can do that no one knows what effect eliminating CO2 would have. I actually suspect that what would happen is that the Earth would burn up. That's because most plants would die leaving a desert. But no one knows. you keep repeating the same vagaries, laced with insults Despite all the other factors does Co2 cause the planet to be warmer or not? Each time to refuse to answer your argument weakens, you wouldn't last 2 minutes on a science forum. I never refuse to answer. I've tried to explain how systems work but you don't understand because you have obviously never studied science at any level. You're a bit like these people who belatedly discover music - usually after hearing some piece that they'd love to play. So they buy an instrument and start trying to play the piece, but they find it completely impossible - the reason being that they don't know the basics. There's a whole lot of really boring stuff that you have to get into your head before you can even attempt to play the piece you want. Your question "Despite all the other factors does Co2 cause the planet to be warmer or not?" is meaningless. If the "other factors" were not there then CO2 would cause the planet to warm. But then you're just repeating Tyndall's experiment with a box and a UV light. But the "other factors" ARE there - and the experiments have failed to show CO2 warming in this environment. And the reason is plainly obvious. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but it's also a gas that causes plants to grow - and when plants grow they absorb large amounts of the Sun's energy to drive the chemical reactions that create the higher organic compounds. And this causes cooling. Whether the overall effect of CO2 is warming or cooling is not known. The experiments would indicate there's no overall effect. And I've asked you to provide evidence of its overall warming effect and you've never provided it. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 7, 2024 7:58:04 GMT
There's no massive recession. The simple fact is that no one has ever managed to make a profit out of selling pure electric cars. They're all sold at a loss (which is subsidised either by governments or by sale of ICE cars). As for pollution from ICE cars there isn't any. They emit CO2 and water - and some tyre rubber. The real polluters are BEVs which generate very large amounts of rubber pollution which gets everywhere and lasts a long time. Jeez how unaware can you be. Which bit is wrong? |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 7, 2024 8:01:52 GMT
Jeez how unaware can you be. Which bit is wrong? Nothing you have stated has been wrong mate.. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 7, 2024 8:40:29 GMT
you keep repeating the same vagaries, laced with insults Despite all the other factors does Co2 cause the planet to be warmer or not? Each time to refuse to answer your argument weakens, you wouldn't last 2 minutes on a science forum. I never refuse to answer. I've tried to explain how systems work but you don't understand because you have obviously never studied science at any level. You're a bit like these people who belatedly discover music - usually after hearing some piece that they'd love to play. So they buy an instrument and start trying to play the piece, but they find it completely impossible - the reason being that they don't know the basics. There's a whole lot of really boring stuff that you have to get into your head before you can even attempt to play the piece you want. Your question "Despite all the other factors does Co2 cause the planet to be warmer or not?" is meaningless. If the "other factors" were not there then CO2 would cause the planet to warm. But then you're just repeating Tyndall's experiment with a box and a UV light. But the "other factors" ARE there - and the experiments have failed to show CO2 warming in this environment. And the reason is plainly obvious. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but it's also a gas that causes plants to grow - and when plants grow they absorb large amounts of the Sun's energy to drive the chemical reactions that create the higher organic compounds. And this causes cooling. Whether the overall effect of CO2 is warming or cooling is not known. The experiments would indicate there's no overall effect. And I've asked you to provide evidence of its overall warming effect and you've never provided it. You answer questions that were not asked. I didn't ask how the system works, I know that in as much detail as do you. Anyway much as you to try to bury it, you agree above that Co2 is a greenhouse gas. After that the sums are pretty simple. The amount of Co2 in the atmosphere is tightly linked to the earths temperature, despite vegetations increased absorption due to this increased Co2 it is clear that vegetation is not keeping up and maintaining the balance. The earth is warming and its due to manmade Co2. All your 'science' above is just an explanation of net zero. The point at which the earths systems can balance and keep Co2 at a stable non growing point. As I keep saying for the benefit of those who think net zero means zero, it means the above. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 7, 2024 12:31:08 GMT
I can't believe this one's still going. 101 pages and no light at the end of the tunnel even yet.
Plenty of heat being generated though, if little light.
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Post by jonksy on Mar 7, 2024 15:39:50 GMT
I can get 5 tons in mine. And it doesn't decrease the range even with the heater wipes and headlight on plus towing a trailer.. Fiat 500? Nah Nissan novara outlaw. WTF. Would a fiat 500 move building gear around? Still I would rather have a fiat 500 than a electric useless lemon.. |
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