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Post by Vinny on Oct 5, 2023 19:06:48 GMT
We're talking about killing off devolution.
Kill devolution and separatism dies with it.
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Post by Ripley on Oct 5, 2023 20:53:16 GMT
We're talking about killing off devolution. Kill devolution and separatism dies with it. In your dreams, maybe. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 5, 2023 20:57:04 GMT
Devolution is a failure. That's a fact.
It's been a generation.
High time for another vote.
If the Tories want to improve their standing and get another term in office, pledge a referendum on Scottish and Welsh devolution.
Explain the facts, the costs, the crappy laws the devolved bodies churn out, like the perverts charter. Get the vote held and get devolution abolished. And whilst we're at it, abolish the London Assembly as well.
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Post by morayloon on Oct 5, 2023 23:44:24 GMT
As expected. Ducking, weaving, falling back on how things used to be Good Old Days pre-1707 when Scotland could still legitimately be said to a 'country'. But that was 316 almost 317 years ago. I thought it was only Little Englanders who were supposed to still inhabit the past. What do you think the archetypal visitor from Mars would make of the present arrangements where a region smaller than Yorkshire or the North West has a complete government with all the attendant trappings, bureaucratic apparatus and expense? He'd think it is madness as indeed do most observers on the continent once they become aware of the full extent of the foolishness. There is no way to rationalise such a set-up except to attempt, as you do, to argue that's how it used to be in the Good Old Days when Scotland was a proper country, not as now a Lilliputian Ruritania, a latter-day Grand Duchy of Fenwick. Do you actually read posts? Who mentioned anything about pre 1707? I told you why the NHS is as it is; I told you the situation re Scotland & the Scottish Office prior to 1999. You make no response to either. Instead you go on about some irrelevancies Yorkshire is a county in England, Scotland is a nation, a country! You might as well ask why the Irish Republic exists as a Nation State, after all it's smaller than Scotland. Malta, with a population of c518,000 should, by your logic, be back under Brit control as it has no right to exist as an Independent state. So, how many European 'observers' have you spoken to? As I said, read posts carefully, the respond once you understand what has been said. You haven't said how you are going to grow that 8% to achieve your dream of a Greater England. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 6, 2023 0:11:11 GMT
Scotland is a construct, an invention.
It is no more a country than Liverpool.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 6, 2023 8:09:50 GMT
With the popularity of the incompetent SNP at the lowest it has been in decades, there is no better time to sink them once and for all.
Without devolution they are nothing, a minor fringe party which would pose as much threat to British politics as the decayed corpse of Arthur Donaldson.
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Post by Tinculin on Oct 6, 2023 8:20:42 GMT
If your argument is from a political standpoint, then to be a country your government must have the ability to enter into relations with other states. In this case, neither Scotland nor England are countries and the actual country is the United Kingdom.
- England doesn't have a table at the UN, it's not recognized as a political entity on the world stage, and to the rest of the world, it is the Government of the United Kingdom that other nations address.
If you want to look at it through a slightly different lens, one of the commonwealth and history, then I fail to see an argument that legitimizes England as a country but not Scotland?
- King Charles after all, is King of Great Britain, including England, Scotland, and Wales & NI.
- Scotland & England participates in the Football / Rugby World cups & Commonwealth games etc.
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Post by morayloon on Oct 6, 2023 8:49:33 GMT
Scotland doesn't want independence. Most Scots want the union. And if explained to them, just how much devolution wastes, most Scots won't want devolution either. Lets hold another referendum on the matter, with the costs on the ballot paper, showing just what a waste of money it is and invite Scotland to abolish devolution. Then, once devolution is abolished, set about taking down the boundary lines between England Wales and Scotland. One legal system for all of us. Good luck with that! Where's the support for ending Devolution? |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 6, 2023 8:55:02 GMT
Hold the vote and we'll find out.
What are you afraid of?
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Post by morayloon on Oct 6, 2023 8:55:08 GMT
We're talking about killing off devolution. Kill devolution and separatism dies with it. Scottish Nationalism was around before 1999. The vast majority of Scots want some level of Home Rule whether it be the current, paltry settlement, FFA or Independence. Only 8% want to see Direct Rule |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 6, 2023 8:58:05 GMT
If what you say is true you have nothing to fear by holding the following referendum:
"Devolution is a political and economic failure that duplicates governmental functions at vast cost, resulting in less money for front line services including the NHS, policing and defence whilst churning out idiotic legislation such as the perverts charter.
Can we scrap it? Yes / No"
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Post by morayloon on Oct 6, 2023 9:48:23 GMT
Devolution is a failure. That's a fact. It's been a generation. High time for another vote. If the Tories want to improve their standing and get another term in office, pledge a referendum on Scottish and Welsh devolution. Explain the facts, the costs, the crappy laws the devolved bodies churn out, like the perverts charter. Get the vote held and get devolution abolished. And whilst we're at it, abolish the London Assembly as well. Devolution has brought Scotland Governments' the electorate voted for. We have to live with Tory Governments foisted on us by English votes at Westminster elections but Holyrood has kept the rabid right at bay! In 2019 & 2020 Survation carried out a poll featuring the following question: Do you agree or disagree that ‘Control over all decisions affecting people in Scotland should be made by the Scottish parliament/government, regardless of which political party is in power’?The Results Fieldwork end date 5 October 2020 9 October 2019 Pollster Poll bySurvation Poll bySurvation
Strongly agree 38% 37% Somewhat agree 26% 27% Neither agree nor disagree 18% 16% Somewhat disagree 9% 10% Strongly disagree 9% 10% Another piece of evidence showing support for Those were surveys about support for Devolution. The 9%, 'somewhat disagree', figure merely means they don't want more powers given to Holyrood. The 9%, 'strongly disagree figure, are the diehard yoons. It ties in with the 8% from the 2022 Scottish Social Attitudes survey. How do you know Devolution has failed? If it has, that is an argument for Independence since there is no, or very little, support for foreign rule If the Tories make any pledge to end Devolution, they would, on the figures provided, be wiped out. |
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Post by morayloon on Oct 6, 2023 9:51:47 GMT
With the popularity of the incompetent SNP at the lowest it has been in decades, there is no better time to sink them once and for all. Without devolution they are nothing, a minor fringe party which would pose as much threat to British politics as the decayed corpse of Arthur Donaldson. I wouldn't read too much into the result of one by-election. You've been prophesying the demise of the SNP for years. Remember 2017? |
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Post by morayloon on Oct 6, 2023 9:53:10 GMT
Hold the vote and we'll find out. What are you afraid of? I'm not afraid. It's above my pay grade to call a Referendum |
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Post by morayloon on Oct 6, 2023 9:54:50 GMT
If what you say is true you have nothing to fear by holding the following referendum: "Devolution is a political and economic failure that duplicates governmental functions at vast cost, resulting in less money for front line services including the NHS, policing and defence whilst churning out idiotic legislation such as the perverts charter. Can we scrap it? Yes / No" And you think that would get past the Electoral Commission. A hae ma doots ma loon. |
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