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Post by Pacifico on Sept 25, 2023 6:37:11 GMT
The reason the Lib Dems, the Greens and the Monster Raving Loonies are little more than fringe parties has nothing to do with FPTP or the so called two party system, which clearly it isn't. The reason they are small fringe parties is because, oddly enough, they are unpopular with the vast majority of the electorate. Who'd a thunk it. Come on ladies wake up this ain't rocket science. Both the Lib Dems and Green seem to be considerably more popular with the electorate than Reform or UKIP however. Yes dappy - we see all across Europe how unpopular right-wing Parties are.. ...by the way - at the last election we had using PR (and the one before that) who was the largest Party? - I'll give you a clue, it was not the LibDems or Greens.. |
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Post by thomas on Sept 25, 2023 6:42:47 GMT
I wonder what happened to the last lib dem leader? She didn't exactly have her finger on the pulse. Jo Swinson the leader of the Lib-dems not only lost her leadership she lost her seat, because she wanted to betray democracy and Cancel Brexit, and she deserved all she got, I bet if she could turn back the clock she would realise you can not treat people with such contempt. not quite fairsociety . Jo swinson was a carpetbagger , representing the good people of east dunbartonshire from afar , who was telling scots we couldnt and mustnt have another referendum on indy while demanding another referendum on brexit because she didint like that particular result.
This enraged the good people of eaast dunbartonshire who promptly gave her the boot for her idiotic and anti democratic stance.
The public dont take kindly to politicians pissing over a democratic vote , and then telling you you cant have a further vote on something they dont agree with while demanding another vote o nsoemthing they do.
I was doing cartwheels when that result came in . There were many across scotland , who were pro european , who believed england should get what it had demcoratically voted for , and were disgusted at the behviour of swinson and starmer. That included many snp voters as well.
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Post by thomas on Sept 25, 2023 6:46:35 GMT
The Lib Dems are the 3rd party of the UK, or the 4th party of Scotland, and whist they are for the time been pretty much Not Relevant, they have, and could again wield influence. by what measure sid? The snp are the third party of the uk in terms of seats , which is the usual barometer the liberals were judged by until the snp took their place. In the scottish parliament , the scottish greens are the fourth party , not the liberals. Not sure you are up to speed with modern politics at the minute sid.
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Post by dappy on Sept 25, 2023 7:59:47 GMT
Both the Lib Dems and Green seem to be considerably more popular with the electorate than Reform or UKIP however. Yes dappy - we see all across Europe how unpopular right-wing Parties are.. ...by the way - at the last election we had using PR (and the one before that) who was the largest Party? - I'll give you a clue, it was not the LibDems or Greens.. We are in the UK Pacifico. In the UK we have had 14 byelections n this parliament. Lib Dems have earned 89.6k votes, Green 14.6, Reform 10.1 In the local elections Lib Dems and Greens picked up seats across the country, Reform were wiped out apart from a handful of seats in one city (Derby?0 If Red is right and the Lib Dems are not electorally popular, what does that say for Reform and its siblings? It ain't rocket science..... |
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Post by Vinny on Sept 25, 2023 9:24:35 GMT
Stop all the women can have penises bollocks. Shut the remoaner wing of his party up. Campaign for a referendum on proportional representation. Campaign for a referendum on devolution to reappraise the last 25 years. Campaign to make STEM subjects tuition fee free. Cut the number of people who go to university to 35% of school leavers and offer more vocational courses. Get school leavers picking fruit. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Sept 25, 2023 9:32:20 GMT
The Lib-dems are going to use tactical voting in the next GE, they aren't canvassing Labour constituencies only Tory, so the protest voters against the Tories are most likely to vote Lib-dem, this tactical move could mean a Labour-Lib-dem coalition, and let me tell you that is our worst nightmare.
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 25, 2023 10:00:35 GMT
The reason the Lib Dems, the Greens and the Monster Raving Loonies are little more than fringe parties has nothing to do with FPTP or the so called two party system, which clearly it isn't. The reason they are small fringe parties is because, oddly enough, they are unpopular with the vast majority of the electorate. Who'd a thunk it. Come on ladies wake up this ain't rocket science. Both the Lib Dems and Green seem to be considerably more popular with the electorate than Reform or UKIP however. I agree, there are a wide range of parties to choose from. Just because the vast majority of the electorate usually vote conservative or Labour doesn't make us a two party state. |
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Post by dappy on Sept 25, 2023 10:30:18 GMT
There is wide range of parties Red. Trouble is with our system, in each constituency there is at most two, often one potential winner and that is usually tory or Labour meaning that people are incentivised to vote for the big parties or their vote is "wasted". It means at election times, probably both Reform and Lib Dem/Green vote is understated and certainly neither gets the representation they deserve. Remember the UKIp vote of (was it) 15% but no seats one election. Hard to see that as justifiable democratically.
May well be that if the Tory Party splits after the next election, then the cry for a fairer electoral system may become undeniable.
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Post by dodgydave on Sept 26, 2023 1:11:29 GMT
With Sunak or Starmer as the choice, the LibDem have never been more irrelevent.
There is no way we will have PR under a Labour government, because Labour is two (maybe three) parties rolled into one, so under PR they would split and the gloves would be off. The way Starmer is going, he might have to go into coalition with the SNP, and that will be interesting to say the least!
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 26, 2023 1:55:21 GMT
There is wide range of parties Red. Trouble is with our system, in each constituency there is at most two, often one potential winner and that is usually tory or Labour meaning that people are incentivised to vote for the big parties or their vote is "wasted". It means at election times, probably both Reform and Lib Dem/Green vote is understated and certainly neither gets the representation they deserve. Remember the UKIp vote of (was it) 15% but no seats one election. Hard to see that as justifiable democratically. May well be that if the Tory Party splits after the next election, then the cry for a fairer electoral system may become undeniable. Dappy, taking your last point first, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that the Tory party will split. Go with me on this, the British Conservative party whether big C or little c are the most established political party in the world. On the wider point of the system, I voted UKIP for 11 years but I never wanted a UKIP government, I wanted a referendum and voting for UKIP forced that referendum. Dappy the only people who moan about results are the losers. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 26, 2023 2:02:04 GMT
With Sunak or Starmer as the choice, the LibDem have never been more irrelevent. There is no way we will have PR under a Labour government, because Labour is two (maybe three) parties rolled into one, so under PR they would split and the gloves would be off. The way Starmer is going, he might have to go into coalition with the SNP, and that will be interesting to say the least! A Lab/Lib/Green/SNP coalition is a possibility... ...be frightened children, be very frightened. |
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Post by dappy on Sept 26, 2023 6:40:04 GMT
There is wide range of parties Red. Trouble is with our system, in each constituency there is at most two, often one potential winner and that is usually tory or Labour meaning that people are incentivised to vote for the big parties or their vote is "wasted". It means at election times, probably both Reform and Lib Dem/Green vote is understated and certainly neither gets the representation they deserve. Remember the UKIp vote of (was it) 15% but no seats one election. Hard to see that as justifiable democratically. May well be that if the Tory Party splits after the next election, then the cry for a fairer electoral system may become undeniable. Dappy, taking your last point first, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that the Tory party will split. Go with me on this, the British Conservative party whether big C or little c are the most established political party in the world. On the wider point of the system, I voted UKIP for 11 years but I never wanted a UKIP government, I wanted a referendum and voting for UKIP forced that referendum. Dappy the only people who moan about results are the losers. I agree that the Conservative party have historically been one of the worlds most potent election winning machines. They have done that largely by putting pragmatism before ideology. They have been written off before while Blair was PM but Cameron detoxified the brand and the rest is history. This time feels different. There is a wing of the party that seems to value ideology over winning elections and it feels like they may be in the ascendancy post election. It feels a bit like the Tories Corbyn moment. Let’s say the One Nation side do win the civil war post election. Do the likes of Braverman and Badenoch stay with the Tories or go off to do something with the like minded Reform. Let’s say the populists win the civil war - do the one nationers live with say Badenoch as leader or give up and leave. The history of Labour under Corbyn and Change UK suggests the one nationers would be better hunkering down and biding their time for the populists to prove vote losers. The most likely scenario is that they will stay loosely together but without an obvious unifying leader (Cleverley looks the best of a bad bunch) the Tories moving right absorbing Reform but losing the One Nation wing doesn’t seem an impossible scenario. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Sept 27, 2023 9:08:28 GMT
I suspect he will do the decent thing and explode. You’ve heard the new oil field got a green light today ? Now all Sunak has to do is make JSO as illegal as ISIS and the Provos …
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