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Post by sheepy on Oct 2, 2023 21:44:52 GMT
ZG, if you're genuinely interested in this subject a book you will find very interesting is 'The Great Railway Conspiracy' by David Henshaw. It's an extremely revealing read. Another conspiracy jeez. Where? now pull yourself together and stop being a zombie. The cost has basically doubled in 6 years and it has become a white elephant with no end of rising costs in sight, just like crossrail. So if you want to save your EU project which is no longer much use for them unless we re-join, start thinking how you are going to complete it for 55billion or a large chunk of it is going in the bin.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 2, 2023 22:14:38 GMT
Where? now pull yourself together and stop being a zombie. The cost has basically doubled in 6 years and it has become a white elephant with no end of rising costs in sight, just like crossrail. So if you want to save your EU project which is no longer much use for them unless we re-join, start thinking how you are going to complete it for 55billion or a large chunk of it is going in the bin. The book is called The great railway conspiracy
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Post by Handyman on Oct 3, 2023 6:21:30 GMT
cobblers,they closed so much because Ernest Marples who was as bent as a nine nob note was transport minister with shares in a road transport company and marples ridgeway who built motorways. He ran away and hid on the continent from the long arm of the law. Cobblers - the railway was publicly owned and run and it shut down half the network because it couldn't afford to run it. Marples was long gone by the time the Labour Party enacted the closures. I am old enough to remember Beeching who closed down some of the Nationalised railway lines and stations and why, he closed the line from my home town that used to run into Yorkshire and beyond that line is now a cycle path and nature walk Here is what is on Wiki giving the reason why The Beeching cuts were a major series of route closures and service changes made as part of the restructuring of the nationalised railway system in Great Britain in the 1960s. They are named for Richard Beeching, then-chair of the British Railways Board and the author of two reports – The Reshaping of British Railways (1963) and The Development of the Major Railway Trunk Routes (1965) – that outlined the necessity of improving the efficiency of the railways and the plan for achieving this through restructuring. The first report identified 2,363 stations and 5,000 miles (8,000 km) of railway line for closure, amounting to 55% of stations, 30% of route miles, and the loss of 67,700 British Rail jobs,[1] with an objective of stemming the large losses being incurred during a period of increasing competition from road transport and reducing the rail subsidies necessary to keep the network running. The second report identified a small number of major routes for significant investment. Such was the scale of these cuts that the programme came to be colloquially referred to as the Beeching Axe, though the 1963 report also recommended some less well-publicised changes; including a switch to the now-standard practice of containerisation for rail freight, and the replacement of some services with integrated bus services linked to the remaining railheads. Protests resulted in the saving of some stations and lines, but the majority were closed as planned. Beeching's name remains associated with the mass closure of railways and the loss of many local services in the period that followed. A few of these routes have since reopened. Some short sections have been preserved as heritage railways, while others have been incorporated into the National Cycle Network or used for road schemes. Others have since been built over, have reverted to farmland, or remain derelict with no plans for any reuse or redevelopment. Some, such as the bulk of the Midland Metro network around Birmingham and Wolverhampton, have since been incorporated into light rail lines. Background See also: History of rail transport in Great Britain Banchory railway station on the Deeside Railway, Scotland, in 1961. The station closed in 1966. After growing rapidly in the 19th century during the Railway Mania, the British railway system reached its height in the years immediately before the First World War, with a network of 23,440 miles (37,720 km).[2][page needed] The network had opened up major travel opportunities for the entire country that had never been available before. However, lines were sometimes uneconomic, and several Members of Parliament had direct involvement with railways, creating a conflict of interest.[3] In 1909, Winston Churchill, then President of the Board of Trade, argued that the country's railways did not have a future without rationalisation and amalgamation.[4] By 1914, the railways had some significant problems, such as a lack of standard rolling stock and too many duplicated routes.[3] After the war, the railways faced increasing competition from a growing road transport network, which had increased to 8 million tons of freight annually by 1921.[5] Around 1,300 miles (2,100 km) of passenger railways closed between 1923 and 1939. These closures included the Charnwood Forest Railway, closed to passengers in 1931, and the Harborne Line in Birmingham, closed to passengers in 1934.[2][page needed] Some lines had never been profitable and were not subject to loss of traffic in that period.[6] The railways were busy during the Second World War, but at the end of the war they were in a poor state of repair and in 1948 nationalised as British Railways. The Branch Lines Committee of the British Transport Commission (BTC) was formed in 1949 with a brief to close the least-used branch lines. This resulted in the loss (or conversion to freight-only operation) of some 3,318 miles (5,340 km) of railway between 1948 and 1962.[2][page needed] The most significant closure was that of the former Midland and Great Northern Joint Railway in 1959. In opposition to these cuts, the period also witnessed the beginning of a protest movement led by the Railway Development Association, whose most famous member was the poet John Betjeman.[7][page needed] They went on to be a significant force resisting the Beeching proposals. Economic recovery and the end of petrol rationing led to rapid growth in car ownership and use. Vehicle mileage grew at a sustained annual rate of 10% between 1948 and 1964.[8] In contrast, railway traffic remained steady during the 1950s[9] but the economic situation steadily deteriorated, with labour costs rising faster than income[7][page needed][9] and fares and freight charges repeatedly frozen by the government to try to control inflation.[7][page needed] By 1955, the railways' share of the transport market had dropped from 16% to 5%.[10] The 1955 Modernisation Plan promised expenditure of over £1,240 million; steam locomotives would be replaced with diesel and electric locomotives, traffic levels would increase, and the system was predicted to be back in profit by 1962.[11][page needed] Instead losses mounted, from £68 million in 1960 to £87 million in 1961, and £104 million in 1962 (£2.36 billion in 2021 terms).[12][13] The BTC could no longer pay the interest on its loans. By 1961, losses were running at £300,000 a day;[14] since nationalisation in 1948, 3,000 miles (4,800 km) of line had been closed,[15][failed verification] railway staff numbers had fallen 26% from 648,000 to 474,000,[16] and the number of railway wagons had fallen 29% from 1,200,000 to 848,000 My bit we could not afford it, which is sad to say seeing as travel by train was invented here in the UK
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Post by thomas on Oct 3, 2023 6:52:49 GMT
desperate spin sid. According to blairite wisdom , if you remember , when corbyn was in charge of labour , we were told any other labour leader would be twenty points ahead of the tories by now.
Starmer is ten points ahead , and dropping.
i think, amazingly, he might have a point. I refer to the swings that occur during party conference. I’m thinking along the lines he is, that what will be interesting is what the polls say when the main parties have had their conferences…. sure john , but will starmer say anything of importance or impart policy for public perusal , or will he has ever say yes and no , left and right , and all things to all men. Hopefully folk are coming to see what a bullshitter he is , but i suspect an element will still vote for him , and of course he is protected by the anti democrtic first pst the post stitch up.
still , its fun watching him fall down the polls and the labour luvvies sweat.
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Post by dappy on Oct 3, 2023 6:55:21 GMT
Still waiting for Handyman to tell me the airline that flies from LCY to MAN?
He may have missed the question to be fair
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 3, 2023 7:46:08 GMT
There are some things its not worth trying to do...
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 3, 2023 8:26:45 GMT
Well I compliment you on doing a little extra digging, but unfortunately what this EU regulation mandates is not high-speed (+> 300 km/h) passenger links but designated 'freight corridors' which may or may be high-speed (almost certainly not). For example even ten years on there are no high-speed lines in Eastern Europe and very few in Scandinavia for that matter so this pic can't be showing anything close to high-speed reality. It has no relevance to HS2, or the decision of various UK governments to press ahead with it. Have another go. As a reminder we're looking for an EU diagram which depicts HS2. Stop swerving Dan, you are becoming an embarrassment yet again. It just so happens it follows the proposed path of HS2. www.railway-technology.com/features/ten-t-corridors/?cf-viewAgain Sheepy, the claim is that the UK embarked on the HS2 project because it was mandated to do so by the EU. Where is the proof of that?
I have been reading the white paper 'High Speed Rail' published in March 2010 by the Department for Transport and signed by Gordon Brown and Andrew Adonis. In 153 pages the EU gets a single mention, and that in respect of the Emissions Trading System.
I'll repeat again the original questions in the perhaps forlorn hope that you or one of the other EUphobes are able to offer a coherent response:
Can anyone provide a link to a diagram of the Trans-European Rail Network which depicts HS2?
And can anyone provide a link to a specific EU directive or regulation that mandates that the UK implements high-speed rail infrastructure (i.e => 300 km/h) anywhere?
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Post by sheepy on Oct 3, 2023 8:31:28 GMT
Again Sheepy, the claim is that the UK embarked on the HS2 project because it was mandated to do so by the EU. Where is the proof of that?
I have been reading the white paper 'High Speed Rail' published in March 2010 by the Department for Transport and signed by Gordon Brown and Andrew Adonis. In 153 pages the EU gets a single mention, and that in respect of the Emissions Trading System.
I'll repeat again the original questions in the perhaps forlorn hope that you or one of the other EUphobes are able to offer a coherent response:
Can anyone provide a link to a diagram of the Trans-European Rail Network which depicts HS2?
And can anyone provide a link to a specific EU directive or regulation that mandates that the UK implements high-speed rail infrastructure (i.e => 300 km/h) anywhere?
You asked for an EU map showing it as part of their infrastructure you got one with the back up, now stop trying to desperately be clever because that is something you ain't. Move along because I have better thinks to do than argue over petty points with you. You might get away with it with red don't try it with me.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 3, 2023 8:37:06 GMT
I'll try whatever I want with whomever I want even including you Sheepy so don't come the old soldier here.
Your earlier response was particularly feeble so I'm merely suggesting you have another go.
If you don't wish to respond then of course feel free to keep quiet.
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Post by sheepy on Oct 3, 2023 8:39:21 GMT
I'll try whatever I want with whomever I want even including you Sheepy so don't come the old soldier here. Your earlier response was particularly feeble so I'm merely suggesting you have another go. If you don't wish to respond then of course feel free to keep quiet. You got what you asked for and have tried to move the goalposts, we all know you from old Dan, you might have sharpened up the rhetoric a bit, but as usual you always step out of your depth.
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Post by sheepy on Oct 3, 2023 8:40:37 GMT
There are some things its not worth trying to do... They will need to get the bumper book of excuses out.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 3, 2023 8:53:16 GMT
I'll try whatever I want with whomever I want even including you Sheepy so don't come the old soldier here. Your earlier response was particularly feeble so I'm merely suggesting you have another go. If you don't wish to respond then of course feel free to keep quiet. You got what you asked for and have tried to move the goalposts, we all know you from old Dan, you might have sharpened up the rhetoric a bit, but as usual you always step out of your depth. But I didn't get that Sheepy. The diagram you presented has no reference to HS2 and nor does the regulation it came from.
Did you notice btw that not all the transport links on the diagram are rail links, including the one across the Irish Sea. It's a representation of transport corridors of various types all across Europe including road, sea and rail. No relevance whatsoever to the UK's decision to build HS2.
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Post by sheepy on Oct 3, 2023 8:55:14 GMT
What a pillock, it is even on a map for him, yet he doesn't get it, even with an EU watermark with a traceable resolution.
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Post by dappy on Oct 3, 2023 9:02:20 GMT
Perhaps you could explain to me Sheepy.
What benefit would countries currently in the EU derive from our building a rail line between Euston and Manchester (let alone between Birmingham and a random west London suburb no one has heard of?
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Post by sheepy on Oct 3, 2023 9:08:13 GMT
Perhaps you could explain to me Sheepy. What benefit would countries currently in the EU derive from our building a rail line between Euston and Manchester (let alone between Birmingham and a random west London suburb no one has heard of? Look at the map Einstein they are all interlinked, which don't get me wrong, seemed like a good idea at the time but not so much now, as we are said to be no longer in the EU and with costs out of any control which could obviously have been put into updating the original infrastructure. Obviously in future at a set cost not some open ended money printing machine. Although of course you would be one of those happy to bankrupt the country with some folly or another as long as it was put up towards net zero.
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