|
|
Post by sheepy on Sept 19, 2023 18:30:00 GMT
I give up. You are to dim to talk to. Priceless, Zany.  LOL I thought it was hilarious, first Zany tells you how he thinks when you point out the problems with it, he says you are telling him how he thinks, erm no he told you in the first place, followed with you are cancelled. Its complete madness. |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Sept 19, 2023 18:38:02 GMT
Zany, You use the analogy that you object to slavery, but here you are objecting to a plan to (by your latter argument) enslave nobody - ie a plan not to enslave anyone. This is far from the first time you have been caught contradicting yourself on this particular issue - ie asylum and illegal entry to the UK. This agile maneuvering, allied with your totally reliable and steadfast objection to anything that would act significantly to prevent it, are reasons I don't take your protestation that you want something done about it very seriously. You will shift on any issue to raise on objection to acting and will remain stationary exactly where you need to do the same. In this case you have ended up in a pile of contradictions. In my view, you want the the UK public to continue to have this problem and will find an insoluble objection (if you can) to anything that might correct it I give up. You are to dim to talk to. My objection to slavery was an example of something I can object to that doesn't currently exist. It was not a claim your idea enslaved people. I think that's the second time you have employed this straw man. I did not say that you likened my plan to slavery and my defence of it was not that i t is not slavery, I said that your positions became inconsistent because you were hunting for excuses (any). |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Sept 19, 2023 20:58:20 GMT
Zany sez:
"You know there are two separate arguments here.
1, Locking up everyone with the excuse that some are criminals is inhuman.
2, Forcing Europe to take all the asylum seekers and not having our share is immoral. "
Just the two? I suppose it might appear that way if you approach the question from the point of view that the interest of those who are looking to force their way in trumps that of those who would prefer they were kept out.
To put a slightly different inflection on the question, I happened to come across the Home Office annual report for the year ending April 2023. This indicates that while the government spent £4.6 billion on 'asylum and protection' it only spent £1.4 billion on Borders and Enforcement plus a further £1.4 billion on 'Homeland Security'.
In fact expenditure on asylum and protection was second only to 'public safety' (basically the police) as a line item in Home Office's budget.
Is this a situation you believe that most people would consider to be the proper order of priority?
|
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 19, 2023 21:08:50 GMT
Zany sez: "You know there are two separate arguments here. 1, Locking up everyone with the excuse that some are criminals is inhuman. 2, Forcing Europe to take all the asylum seekers and not having our share is immoral. " Just the two? I suppose it might appear that way if you approach the question from the point of view that the interest of those who are looking to force their way in trumps that of those who would prefer they were kept out. To put a slightly different inflection on the question, I happened to come across the Home Office annual report for the year ending April 2023. This indicates that while the government spent £4.6 billion on 'asylum and protection' it only spent £1.4 billion on Borders and Enforcement plus a further £1.4 billion on 'Homeland Security'. In fact expenditure on asylum and protection was second only to 'public safety' (basically the police) as a line item in Home Office's budget. Is this a situation you believe that most people would consider to be the proper order of priority? The budget for the police UK is £25.3Bn. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Sept 20, 2023 8:34:51 GMT
I was referring to the amount funded out of the Home Office budget, £13.4 billion in 2022-23.
You didn't comment on the fact that expenditure on asylum at £4.6 billion is greater than the total expenditure on Homeland Security, Border Control and Immigration Enforcement combined (£2.9 billion), or whether you thought the public would agree that this is the correct order of priority.
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Sept 20, 2023 11:36:44 GMT
Fascists are not Conservatives even if they pretend to be. Real Conservatives believe in human rights. That doesn't hide the facts that some hard right and some Fascist like MPs have nestled quite comfortably in the Tory party. Would you make the same excuse for those left of center left Labour members? |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Sept 20, 2023 11:48:22 GMT
Hard right . Thinks that their country has its own culture and wants to preserve it. Opposes excessive immigration and expects immigrants to respect the culture of the country that nourishes them . Opposes the idea that a bloke in a dress is a woman Thinks that the nuclear family with a man and a woman as parents is the ideal. Respects Christian values . We need more of them . Your points almost certainly include the majority of people, don't confuse the hard Left with all people left of center. The last thing this country needs is the hard right whom if they became consolidated, could, intentionally or not, open the doors for the Fascist right. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2023 12:20:34 GMT
Hard right . Thinks that their country has its own culture and wants to preserve it. Opposes excessive immigration and expects immigrants to respect the culture of the country that nourishes them . Opposes the idea that a bloke in a dress is a woman Thinks that the nuclear family with a man and a woman as parents is the ideal. Respects Christian values . We need more of them . Your points almost certainly include the majority of people, don't confuse the hard Left with all people left of center. The last thing this country needs is the hard right whom if they became consolidated, could, intentionally or not, open the doors for the Fascist right. Your post almost certainly suggests that you didn’t understand the post that you replied to. |
|
|
|
Post by Dubdrifter on Sept 20, 2023 12:34:30 GMT
Fascists are not Conservatives even if they pretend to be. Real Conservatives believe in human rights. That doesn't hide the facts that some hard right and some Fascist like MPs have nestled quite comfortably in the Tory party. Would you make the same excuse for those left of center left Labour members? Surely the MSM, politicians, their Globalist bullies and their poodle multiculturalists jointly pushing forced illegal immigration agendas …. have done far more damage to Communities in this Country than NF racists … the wrong sort of immigrants with anarchist/criminal and terrorist intentions damaged ‘community unity’ immensely. This Collective have arguably turned us into a greater ‘police state’ with CCTV everywhere under EU mandates … than anything actively done by the people who voted Brexit and now advocate sealed strong border security. It’s something the Majority voted for … and gave PM Boris J. a further 74% landslide affirmation to execute this policy at the last GE. …but immigrants shoe-horned into our Cabinet effectively spat on the Electorate … and totally ignored the mandate given by The People (74%) The Media can label all of this “racist and Far Right … even Nazi”… but the fact remains … new age Nazi totalitarianism is alive and well in the Establishment in the UK today thanks to them … and a Shamocracy now exists here … 8 years of Brexit intransigence confirmed that. Even the Left in opposition have been in bed with Soros Posse anarchists - who have manipulated them - plus BBC Quango Management. …. … Hysteria about us swinging Far Right because we value common sense security …. is exaggerated … like the picture of the 6 Nazi saluters in Spain. … more tight camera angle “fake news”. As soon as any Party advocates a tough border security policy in their manifestos … the Zionist-owned bullied and dominated Media gets it’s label gun and ‘swastika’ stickers out … and rolls out wall to wall re-runs of Schindler’s List … and any other WW2 atrocity pic in their tired cannon of excuses. Well that wont wash anymore … we want ACTION.
If Net+Yahoo can act “Hard Right” on border control … Britain can certainly roll out the same. … We are being stupid and super idiotic not to fast track this.
We as a Nation need to stand up and put indigenous people back in the driving seat of all our Institutions … and kick out the corrupt elements governing our Media … spitting on our Democracy … there is a bent minority of covert anarchist immigrant lawyers intent to obstruct and derail what the 74% want here - about time we got wise to that insurgency |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Sept 20, 2023 13:59:08 GMT
Fascists are not Conservatives even if they pretend to be. Real Conservatives believe in human rights. That doesn't hide the facts that some hard right and some Fascist like MPs have nestled quite comfortably in the Tory party. Would you make the same excuse for those left of center left Labour members? Such as? |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Sept 20, 2023 17:49:57 GMT
I was referring to the amount funded out of the Home Office budget, £13.4 billion in 2022-23. You didn't comment on the fact that expenditure on asylum at £4.6 billion is greater than the total expenditure on Homeland Security, Border Control and Immigration Enforcement combined (£2.9 billion), or whether you thought the public would agree that this is the correct order of priority. Apologies. I saw the police reference and thought some people would assume you meant more than the police full stop. How much of the £4.6Bn is wasted keeping thousands of asylum seekers in hotels while not being processed? Big numbers are impressive but need explaining. The people want simple answers to complicated problems |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Sept 21, 2023 8:16:04 GMT
What I would like is a simple answer to the question I have posed twice now. May as well try for third go.
Do you believe the public would agree that spending much more on asylum seekers than on border control is the correct order of priority?
If you are going to respond with more tap-dancing then please don't bother.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 21, 2023 13:00:08 GMT
Hard right . Thinks that their country has its own culture and wants to preserve it. Opposes excessive immigration and expects immigrants to respect the culture of the country that nourishes them . Opposes the idea that a bloke in a dress is a woman Thinks that the nuclear family with a man and a woman as parents is the ideal. Respects Christian values . We need more of them . To the lunatic left those things are far right, to everyone else they're just normal. |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Sept 21, 2023 13:37:02 GMT
What I would like is a simple answer to the question I have posed twice now. May as well try for third go. Do you believe the public would agree that spending much more on asylum seekers than on border control is the correct order of priority? If you are going to respond with more tap-dancing then please don't bother. What is the use of border force,? They do jackshit about the problem anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Sept 21, 2023 14:02:28 GMT
Your points almost certainly include the majority of people, don't confuse the hard Left with all people left of center. The last thing this country needs is the hard right whom if they became consolidated, could, intentionally or not, open the doors for the Fascist right. Your post almost certainly suggests that you didn’t understand the post that you replied to. I answered and explained two points from your post which is why your reply is just more of your absolute nonsense. Bye. |
|
