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Post by zanygame on Sept 13, 2023 8:29:14 GMT
If Tories support raising taxes the fix the country then maybe. But I seem to have missed the memo. Highest tax burden in 70 years - if you want high taxes then rejoice! - you already have them, brought to you by the Tories. Yes I do. The government and especially the NHS provide services never dreamed of 30 years ago. But the idiots who vote Tory think they are about lowering taxes. Those same idiots think you can have all the modern cures and treatments for the same money you paid 30 years ago. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 10:42:21 GMT
Me thinks that the Tory Apologists have been well and truly cornered here
According to them - The last Labour government made huge improvents to the NHS due to excessive borrowing
Except that borrowing was not excessive, and in fact it was much lower than under the previous John Major government
So next excuse - It was PFI that did it, excessive borrowing off the Red Book
But PFI DOES NOT reduce waiting lists, waiting times, and improve outcomes or increase clinical procedures, or increase the numbers of doctors, nurses and other frontline staff.
The NHS has always been the achillies heel for the Tories, they always mess-up with the NHS, just as they have this time, and hopefuly in less than a year they will pay for it.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 13, 2023 12:17:56 GMT
Except that borrowing was not excessive, and in fact it was much lower than under the previous John Major government Cobblers  In 1990 UK National debt was 21% of GDP - Labour never matched this figure. Debt rose throughout the Major years and when Labour took power in 1997 they started to reduce the debt by following Tory spending plans - then after the 2001 election when they opened the spending taps debt took off again. Labour left office with debt 3 times the amount it was at the start of the Major era.  |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 13, 2023 12:47:08 GMT
Me thinks that the Tory Apologists have been well and truly cornered here According to them - The last Labour government made huge improvents to the NHS due to excessive borrowing Except that borrowing was not excessive, and in fact it was much lower than under the previous John Major government So next excuse - It was PFI that did it, excessive borrowing off the Red Book But PFI DOES NOT reduce waiting lists, waiting times, and improve outcomes or increase clinical procedures, or increase the numbers of doctors, nurses and other frontline staff. The NHS has always been the achillies heel for the Tories, they always mess-up with the NHS, just as they have this time, and hopefuly in less than a year they will pay for it. Really? What improvements were those then? Because I never noticed.
I did notice when I had to pay to go private, due to the crapness of the NHS, right in the middle of these allegedly golden years of yours.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 13, 2023 12:47:57 GMT
Except that borrowing was not excessive, and in fact it was much lower than under the previous John Major government Cobblers In 1990 UK National debt was 21% of GDP - Labour never matched this figure. Debt rose throughout the Major years and when Labour took power in 1997 they started to reduce the debt by following Tory spending plans - then after the 2001 election when they opened the spending taps debt took off again. Labour left office with debt 3 times the amount it was at the start of the Major era. LOL! Those pesky facts, eh? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 12:56:00 GMT
Except that borrowing was not excessive, and in fact it was much lower than under the previous John Major government Cobblers In 1990 UK National debt was 21% of GDP - Labour never matched this figure. Debt rose throughout the Major years and when Labour took power in 1997 they started to reduce the debt by following Tory spending plans - then after the 2001 election when they opened the spending taps debt took off again. Labour left office with debt 3 times the amount it was at the start of the Major era. Do you actually believe your own posts ? The chart you posted backs up everything I previously stated That even though Public Debt fell for 5 years AFTER Blair came to power, and even though at no time during Blairs reign was Public Debt higher than under John Major, the government at the time made huge improvements to the NHS, and it is a fact. If it were not for The World Banking Crisis and the World Recession that followed AFTER Blair left office, then UK Public Debt would never have risen higher than its peak under John Major. At times on National Crisis ( Recession - War - Pandemics etc ) Public Debt always rises, and as much as I do not blame the Tories for the Pandemic, I also do not blame Gordon Brown for what happened in 2007. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 13:13:31 GMT
Me thinks that the Tory Apologists have been well and truly cornered here According to them - The last Labour government made huge improvents to the NHS due to excessive borrowing Except that borrowing was not excessive, and in fact it was much lower than under the previous John Major government So next excuse - It was PFI that did it, excessive borrowing off the Red Book But PFI DOES NOT reduce waiting lists, waiting times, and improve outcomes or increase clinical procedures, or increase the numbers of doctors, nurses and other frontline staff. The NHS has always been the achillies heel for the Tories, they always mess-up with the NHS, just as they have this time, and hopefuly in less than a year they will pay for it. Really? What improvements were those then? Because I never noticed.
I did notice when I had to pay to go private, due to the crapness of the NHS, right in the middle of these allegedly golden years of yours.
In that case you must have either been abroad, asleep or in a coma In 1997 there were 284,000 people who had been waiting for an operation for six months or more - in 2010 that figure was virtually none. Heart disease deaths down by 150000, cancer deaths down by 50000, reduced waiting lists by over 500,000 YES half a million, waiting times fell to a maximum of 18 weeks. Free breast cancer screening for all women, record low A&E waiting times, reintroduced matrons, all of this without PFI, all without excessive borrowing. Is there anything else you want to know ? |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 13, 2023 16:16:17 GMT
Except that borrowing was not excessive, and in fact it was much lower than under the previous John Major government Cobblers In 1990 UK National debt was 21% of GDP - Labour never matched this figure. Debt rose throughout the Major years and when Labour took power in 1997 they started to reduce the debt by following Tory spending plans - then after the 2001 election when they opened the spending taps debt took off again. Labour left office with debt 3 times the amount it was at the start of the Major era. Oh please. No one is that stupid, not even on here. Anyone can see borrowing fell from 1997 when New Labour took over and stayed low until the 2008 global crash. Next you'll be telling us Gordon Brown caused that. 😅 😂 🤣 |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 13, 2023 16:35:18 GMT
Cobblers In 1990 UK National debt was 21% of GDP - Labour never matched this figure. Debt rose throughout the Major years and when Labour took power in 1997 they started to reduce the debt by following Tory spending plans - then after the 2001 election when they opened the spending taps debt took off again. Labour left office with debt 3 times the amount it was at the start of the Major era. Do you actually believe your own posts ? The chart you posted backs up everything I previously stated That even though Public Debt fell for 5 years AFTER Blair came to power, and even though at no time during Blairs reign was Public Debt higher than under John Major, the government at the time made huge improvements to the NHS, and it is a fact. Major's lowest year was 1991 - Blairs was 2002. Was debt lower in 1991 or 2002? Take your time... |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 13, 2023 16:35:38 GMT
In that case you must have either been abroad, asleep or in a coma... Oh no, I was definitely in the UK. You might even have heard of it - have you ever been here? |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 13, 2023 16:37:07 GMT
Cobblers In 1990 UK National debt was 21% of GDP - Labour never matched this figure. Debt rose throughout the Major years and when Labour took power in 1997 they started to reduce the debt by following Tory spending plans - then after the 2001 election when they opened the spending taps debt took off again. Labour left office with debt 3 times the amount it was at the start of the Major era. Oh please. No one is that stupid, not even on here. Anyone can see borrowing fell from 1997 when New Labour took over and stayed low until the 2008 global crash. Next you'll be telling us Gordon Brown caused that. 😅 😂 🤣 I already said that borrowing fell in Labour's first administration when they were following Tory spending plans - and after the 2001 election it took off. How many times do I have to repeat myself before you understand?  |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 13, 2023 16:58:46 GMT
Oh please. No one is that stupid, not even on here. Anyone can see borrowing fell from 1997 when New Labour took over and stayed low until the 2008 global crash. Next you'll be telling us Gordon Brown caused that. 😅 😂 🤣 I already said that borrowing fell in Labour's first administration when they were following Tory spending plans - and after the 2001 election it took off. How many times do I have to repeat myself before you understand? Yes it seems they followed Tory spending plans while still managing fantastic improvements in the NHS. Pure genius. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2023 16:59:16 GMT
Do you actually believe your own posts ? The chart you posted backs up everything I previously stated That even though Public Debt fell for 5 years AFTER Blair came to power, and even though at no time during Blairs reign was Public Debt higher than under John Major, the government at the time made huge improvements to the NHS, and it is a fact. Major's lowest year was 1991 - Blairs was 2002. Was debt lower in 1991 or 2002? Take your time... Perhaps if you were to actually read what I have stated, and then think about it, then you would understand where I am coming from. THIS is what I stated "at no time under the Premiership of Tony Blair was debt higher than it was under John Major" It is a factual statement, it is the truth, and I am pointing out to the Tory Apologists that at the same time, massive improvements were made to the NHS. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 13, 2023 17:00:13 GMT
I already said that borrowing fell in Labour's first administration when they were following Tory spending plans - and after the 2001 election it took off. How many times do I have to repeat myself before you understand? Yes it seems they followed Tory spending plans while still managing fantastic improvements in the NHS. Pure genius. Not genius - PFI ... which is where the conversation started. And where did PFI leave us? |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 13, 2023 17:01:30 GMT
Major's lowest year was 1991 - Blairs was 2002. Was debt lower in 1991 or 2002? Take your time... Perhaps if you were to actually read what I have stated, and then think about it, then you would understand where I am coming from. THIS is what I stated "at no time under the Premiership of Tony Blair was debt higher than it was under John Major"
It is a factual statement, it is the truth, and I am pointing out to the Tory Apologists that at the same time, massive improvements were made to the NHS. So you are saying that debt in 1991 was higher than in any year under Blair? Interesting measurement.. |
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