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Post by thomas on Sept 15, 2023 7:52:52 GMT
this is vague nonsense zany. What do you mean they charge more? Is this some vague implication you want more taxes put into the nhs? Good luck with that?
The french have arguably the most consistently best health service in the entire world according to yearly reports by the WHO. They , like most european countires , rely on a part private , part nhs type service , which isnt fully funded by taxing the plebs to death , or fully free at the point of use.
Is this the system that the lamentable starmer is proposing ?
It sounds vague because you were not party to my previous conversations with Pacifico on this subject, where I gave figures showing nearly every EU country and the US all spend a higher percentage of GDP and tax on health care. I was not prepared to do it all again just so's he can leave it for a bit and reset. you are avoiding my question.
The reason many european countires are spending more on health is they charge up front , rather than pounding their population to death with taxes. I have already stated most european countires dont have a free at point of use health service like the yookay health services.
My question to you is how is starmer proposing to put more money into the health service? Is he proposing to tax people more , up national insurance contributions , or is he proposing to copy say the french system ?
You cant waffle on about fixing the health service without telling us what your party proposes.
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Post by thomas on Sept 15, 2023 7:59:17 GMT
Health spending has gone through the roof and we have more people on waiting lists than ever before. If the only answer is to chuck a bit more money at it then I feel you are going to be mightily disappointed..  Then point out a sensible answer not dependent on lies. if i mind the old figures , when taking the uk as a whole rather than the individual devolved services , the long term average of spending on the nhs is something like 4 % of gdp. New labour had it as high as 5.6 % , the tories after their election in 2010 dropped it down to 1 % , as they like the snp were left with the collosul mess of labours pfi and much else to deal with.
Theresa may took it back to 3 % , and then covid had is through the roof.
So pacifico is part correct when he points out health spending is thorugh the roof , for many differnt reasons including the popualtion of the yookay has grown massively.
you offer nothing new , or nothing radical as does your pathetic party new labour.
We want to know what labour propose? Is it taxing us to death , and carry on where blair and brown left off ?
New labour are responsible for many of the ills in both the scottish and english health services , and of course , we only need to look over to wales where labour have been in power over the welsh nhs since 1999 to see the mess they leave , with the welsh health serivice arguably being the worst in the uk.
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Post by zanygame on Sept 15, 2023 8:08:04 GMT
It sounds vague because you were not party to my previous conversations with Pacifico on this subject, where I gave figures showing nearly every EU country and the US all spend a higher percentage of GDP and tax on health care. I was not prepared to do it all again just so's he can leave it for a bit and reset. For you I would pose the original question. How do we provide the heatlhcare we expect in modern UK without either raising taxes or borrowing more. For clarity, we do not have the same available treatments now as we had even 10 years ago. And 55% of the NHS budget is spent on those over 80 years old. Exactly what percentage is spent on wages for the worlds 5th largest employer? as it seems none of them are getting paid enough in this age of AI you keep telling has reduced jobs and paid employment as a better choice Einstein. I am warning you. If you keep insisting on tacking insults and rudeness to every question you ask me I shall simply not answer you. In answer to your question. AI has reduced some jobs in the NHS, but the number of new treatments and the age we now live to has outstripped the savings. I do know there is room for more automated systems and some capital investment in these might well give long term savings. For instance nurses use a lot of high tech monitoring equipment but the data from these is still manually recorded onto either paper or a separate computer. |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 15, 2023 8:11:49 GMT
Exactly what percentage is spent on wages for the worlds 5th largest employer? as it seems none of them are getting paid enough in this age of AI you keep telling has reduced jobs and paid employment as a better choice Einstein. I am warning you. If you keep insisting on tacking insults and rudeness to every question you ask me I shall simply not answer you. In answer to your question. AI has reduced some jobs in the NHS, but the number of new treatments and the age we now live to has outstripped the savings. I do know there is room for more automated systems and some capital investment in these might well give long term savings. For instance nurses use a lot of high tech monitoring equipment but the data from these is still manually recorded onto either paper or a separate computer. That isn't what I asked though was it? Don't be scared of people capable of asking you awkward questions that you can't answer. It would probably been easier to admit you didn't have a clue and hadn't done any homework. As for warning me, highly laughable. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 15, 2023 8:15:20 GMT
It sounds vague because you were not party to my previous conversations with Pacifico on this subject, where I gave figures showing nearly every EU country and the US all spend a higher percentage of GDP and tax on health care. I was not prepared to do it all again just so's he can leave it for a bit and reset. you are avoiding my question.
The reason many European countries are spending more on health is they charge up front , rather than pounding their population to death with taxes. I have already stated most European countries don't have a free at point of use health service like the yookay health services.
My question to you is how is Starmer proposing to put more money into the health service? Is he proposing to tax people more , up national insurance contributions , or is he proposing to copy say the French system ?
You cant waffle on about fixing the health service without telling us what your party proposes.
One post down is a bit early to accuse me of avoiding your question. How does charging people up front instead of through tax make it cheaper? I have no idea how Starmer is going to square the circle as I do not currently own the Labour party. What made you think it was mine? In the meantime I am asking the folks on here for their solutions. My solution is we accept that the healthcare we want today does more and pay more for it. That is no different to accepting the car we want today does more and pay more for it. Or the house insurance on our bigger better house is more than when we had a smaller less good house. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 15, 2023 8:16:07 GMT
I am warning you. If you keep insisting on tacking insults and rudeness to every question you ask me I shall simply not answer you. In answer to your question. AI has reduced some jobs in the NHS, but the number of new treatments and the age we now live to has outstripped the savings. I do know there is room for more automated systems and some capital investment in these might well give long term savings. For instance nurses use a lot of high tech monitoring equipment but the data from these is still manually recorded onto either paper or a separate computer. That isn't what I asked though was it? Don't be scared of people capable of asking you awkward questions that you can't answer. It would probably been easier to admit you didn't have a clue and hadn't done any homework. As for warning me, highly laughable. I warned you. |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 15, 2023 8:17:01 GMT
That isn't what I asked though was it? Don't be scared of people capable of asking you awkward questions that you can't answer. It would probably been easier to admit you didn't have a clue and hadn't done any homework. As for warning me, highly laughable. I warned you. Feck you answer the question or admit you have no idea. |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 15, 2023 8:23:29 GMT
Zany is under the impression he can cancel people for pointing out Westminster party supporters are talking out of their backsides. What a bell end.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 15, 2023 10:56:58 GMT
Health spending has gone through the roof and we have more people on waiting lists than ever before. If the only answer is to chuck a bit more money at it then I feel you are going to be mightily disappointed.. Then point out a sensible answer not dependent on lies. Already have - we have the second fastest growth in Health spend in the OECD. I'm certainly not seeing any improvement for ll that extra cash. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2023 11:26:27 GMT
The Truth - what the Tories REALLY did to the NHS after scraping to power in 2010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
During the election campaign of 2010, David Cameron promised to increase spending in real terms on the NHS.
On paper he kept that promise, but the actual reality is that spending went up (in real terms) by 0.1% (The Kings Fund / BBC).
This resulted in a period of the lowest annual funding in the history of the NHS
But there more jiggery-pokery, capital spending within the NHS was slashed by 17%, the NHS had to make cuts and £1 Billion was taken out of the budget to hand over to the Social Care budget (The Kings Fund / BBC).
FACT: For spending to stand still on the NHS, the budget needed to rise by 3% - the cause is "Health Inflation" a combination of an ageing population, developments in medicines and technology.
When all this was announced by the government in 2010, they also announced that Pledges made by the previous government to offer one-week cancer testing with an urgent GP referral and to extend the free prescriptions scheme were both to be scrapped as well.
The pay of all NHS workers was frozen
RESULT: waiting lists began to rise - waiting times began to rise - staff began leaving the NHS and what you see today stems from the actions of what the government did to the NHS 13 years ago, things have steadily got worse.
CONCLUSION; As with 1997 we need to dump the Tories as soon as possible before its too late and we need a government which will repair all the damage and hopefuly return our NHS back to where it was in 2010.
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Post by Vinny on Sept 15, 2023 11:30:13 GMT
Sid, if Labour want to get back in, they need to learn from their own mistakes rather than bitch and whine about the Tories.
If they want to spend money on the NHS, fine, but do not add to long term public debt in order to do so.
Run a surplus.
Pay down the national debt and build up surpluses so that when the next recession comes we can weather the storm.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2023 11:56:05 GMT
Sid, if Labour want to get back in, they need to learn from their own mistakes rather than bitch and whine about the Tories. If they want to spend money on the NHS, fine, but do not add to long term public debt in order to do so. Run a surplus. Pay down the national debt and build up surpluses so that when the next recession comes we can weather the storm. Heres an interesting little fact: The budget of the UK has been in surplus more times under Labour than under the Tories over the last 50 years. Paying down National Debt is done by running a small budget deficit ( a sustainable deficit ) as opposed to a large budget deficit( an unsustainable deficit ), but as with the Covid19 pandemic and the recession of the early 1990s, it is not possible to run a small deficit during a crisis, same as during the banking crisis and recession 2007-2009. I repeat once again that Blairs government made huge improvements to our NHS and kept borrowing at sustainable levels, which by the way has got absolutely nothing to do with PFI. |
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Post by Vinny on Sept 15, 2023 11:58:24 GMT
Here's an interesting fact, no party can be trusted with power forever. That's why the ballot box was invented.
Instead of getting partisan, recognise the mistakes which got Labour booted, resolve not to make those mistakes again, and have something to offer.
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Post by zanygame on Sept 15, 2023 15:05:56 GMT
The Truth - what the Tories REALLY did to the NHS after scraping to power in 2010-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------During the election campaign of 2010, David Cameron promised to increase spending in real terms on the NHS. On paper he kept that promise, but the actual reality is that spending went up (in real terms) by 0.1% (The Kings Fund / BBC). This resulted in a period of the lowest annual funding in the history of the NHS But there more jiggery-pokery, capital spending within the NHS was slashed by 17%, the NHS had to make cuts and £1 Billion was taken out of the budget to hand over to the Social Care budget (The Kings Fund / BBC). FACT: For spending to stand still on the NHS, the budget needed to rise by 3% - the cause is "Health Inflation" a combination of an ageing population, developments in medicines and technology. When all this was announced by the government in 2010, they also announced that Pledges made by the previous government to offer one-week cancer testing with an urgent GP referral and to extend the free prescriptions scheme were both to be scrapped as well. The pay of all NHS workers was frozen RESULT: waiting lists began to rise - waiting times began to rise - staff began leaving the NHS and what you see today stems from the actions of what the government did to the NHS 13 years ago, things have steadily got worse. CONCLUSION; As with 1997 we need to dump the Tories as soon as possible before its too late and we need a government which will repair all the damage and hopefuly return our NHS back to where it was in 2010. Thanks Sid. Saved me a job there. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 15, 2023 15:06:50 GMT
Sid, if Labour want to get back in, they need to learn from their own mistakes rather than bitch and whine about the Tories. If they want to spend money on the NHS, fine, but do not add to long term public debt in order to do so. Run a surplus. Pay down the national debt and build up surpluses so that when the next recession comes we can weather the storm. Without increasing taxes. |
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